View Full Version : Who has your vote?
I used to be a liberal democrat becuase I thought they were cool and trendy, and stood for common sense and truth, and not the bullcrap of the main parties.
But now, I'm a bit older and a bit wiser ;) I want to support a party that stands for something, so I decided to give Labour my vote. ;)
I know Tony Blair got a bad press for Iraq, but I really think he did the right thing: invade Iraq.
Just hope they wont slap on a high tax for fast cars like supras, or a lot of us will have to give up our hobbies.
What party gets your vote at the moment? :d
Mods, would you move this to off topic please? And if you would, add the following poll:
Choices are Labour, Conservative, or Liberal Democrat.
Thanks.
I vote for a fancy dress party!!:)
Politicians are all the same, same MO. They will say whatever they believe will sway the most public vote, and then do the opposite when they are elected. In all honesty, it is impossible for any party to get elected and suddenly change policy and lets be honest, they don't often change it to suit joe public. (IMHO flawed and all)
Politicians are all the same, same MO. They will say whatever they believe will sway the most public vote, and then do the opposite when they are elected. In all honesty, it is impossible for any party to get elected and suddenly change policy and lets be honest, they don't often change it to suit joe public. (IMHO flawed and all)
Bit of a generalisation, but I agree that there is a lot of pleasing the public just to get votes, sound bites and all. Personally I feel the main culprits for that are the lib dems and the tories.
But I'm sure labour - or new labour - have done it too , but not to the extent of the others.
So what is their MO, according to you? Get elected and stay in power?
I vote for a fancy dress party!!:)
what would you come as though (I think its a pretty good idea). :D
Gaz Walker
17-01-08, 00:29
Politicians are all the same, same MO.
Thats why I've never voted and never will. Its a complete waste of my time because they are all arseholes, regardless of which one is running the show ;)
Gaz.
Max Headroom
17-01-08, 00:30
The current bunch of theiving lying dishonest bar stewards are far worse than anything we have had before. The party of the people has raised more taxes and messed up big style. GB sold half the UKs gold reserve and pumped it into the euro - its gone up in value by 15%, gold on the other hand has risen 216%. Ministers have taken backhanders and done dodgy deals far worse than any conservative. And as for the liberal democrats, they spend their time in committee meetings deciding what colour the wallpaper is going to be. Muppets
Thats why I've never voted and never will. Its a complete waste of time because they are all arseholes, one way or another ;)
Gaz.
Damn, why such a negative view about them. Is it becuase they can't seem to give a straight answer to a question? How can you say that someone much loved as churchill was an ars*hole?, and even more recently john major? Surely these, as well as Tony Blair, are great politicians?
And being able to vote, thats a great thing. Women had to fight to get it not so long ago (1900's I think), why never vote, ever?!
I used to be a real Tory boy, but in recent years the definitions and policies between the two main parties have weakened. We're now in a position where there is no good leadership candidates in either party, no real policy differences and each are just grasping for votes in any area. Sadly it's demised to the US two party system where, for the most of us, there isn't any real term difference between the two main parties.
For some reason I always vote Tory, regardless.
So what is their MO, according to you? Get elected and stay in power?
Indeed, there must be a hint of megalomania. At the end of the day the prime minister is indeed the leader of a policital party. I fully believe that politicians do indeed lie, they promise things in order to gain favour. They may indeed even intend to do what they promise, however the reality is that they get sidetracked with other issues.
Disclaimer : This my personal view and not that of anybody else related to me in anyway.
what would you come as though (I think its a pretty good idea). :D
I would go as someone who couldn't give a monkeys about politics!!;) They are all bent, useless piles of elephant w@nk who are stealing a living. This country is falling to pieces and nobody can do anything about it. What is worse - none of them have the balls to try!!
I would just love to see someone with some steel who will just tell it how it is..!! I have never voted either as I don't see the point.....:(
H.
The current bunch of theiving lying dishonest bar stewards are far worse than anything we have had before. The party of the people has raised more taxes and messed up big style. GB sold half the UKs gold reserve and pumped it into the euro - its gone up in value by 15%, gold on the other hand has risen 216%. Ministers have taken backhanders and done dodgy deals far worse than any conservative. And as for the liberal democrats, they spend their time in committee meetings deciding what colour the wallpaper is going to be. Muppets
:rlol: at wallpaper..
I agree with the goldreserve aspect, but how where they supposed to know at the time? How would you have known? It's easier with hindsight..
How has labour messed up exactly though? Yes there was the pensions, immigration, and data security scandals, but remember the tories and the boom, bust thing they had going? And all the sleeze. They became a joke. Admittedly Cameron has done a great job at turning things around, and they are serious contenders, and may even will then next gen. election. (in about 2 years isnt it?)
You show me any politician in the upper echelons of ANY party including some the so-called "people's" parties who is living WITH the people. I certainly don't see Tony Blair or any of his crownies in a 2bedroom bedsit in Popley? (Popley being a rather larger social estate in Basingstoke). In order to be a true representative of a group of people you need to be one of them and live with the hardships they have to do go through each day. Sadly human nature means that once someone manages to get above a certain group they are more than happy to stay there or try achieve an even higher status. While there are exceptions I've yet to see many in politics.
Standard disclaimer as above applies
Indeed, there must be a hint of megalomania. At the end of the day the prime minister is indeed the leader of a policital party. I fully believe that politicians do indeed lie, they promise things in order to gain favour. They may indeed even intend to do what they promise, however the reality is that they get sidetracked with other issues.
Disclaimer : This my personal view and not that of anybody else related to me in anyway.
Yeah, the two main parties do have more similarities than differences in the last decade or so. But still, don't you think that tories really stand for more power to the individual, less state control, lower taxes. Whereas labour, generally stands for more state control, higher taxes, and more social justice?
I used to be a real Tory boy, but in recent years the definitions and policies between the two main parties have weakened. We're now in a position where there is no good leadership candidates in either party, no real policy differences and each are just grasping for votes in any area. Sadly it's demised to the US two party system where, for the most of us, there isn't any real term difference between the two main parties.
For some reason I always vote Tory, regardless.
I think the foreign sec would make a great PM one day. Cameron as primeminister doesn't seem to wash with me. I'm sure hes a nice guy and stuff, but he seems a bit weedy. Gordon Brown beats him hands down on that front. But yea, since labour dropped a lot of the communist thinking, there has been less difference between them.
I would go as someone who couldn't give a monkeys about politics!!;) They are all bent, useless piles of elephant w@nk who are stealing a living. This country is falling to pieces and nobody can do anything about it. What is worse - none of them have the balls to try!!
I would just love to see someone with some steel who will just tell it how it is..!! I have never voted either as I don't see the point.....:(
H.
:rlol: Which is why most young guys want to see clarkson as PM in the commons. But which party would most suit his style. I'm thinking tory.
You show me any politician in the upper echelons of ANY party including some the so-called "people's" parties who is living WITH the people. I certainly don't see Tony Blair or any of his crownies in a 2bedroom bedsit in Popley? (Popley being a rather larger social estate in Basingstoke). In order to be a true representative of a group of people you need to be one of them and live with the hardships they have to do go through each day. Sadly human nature means that once someone manages to get above a certain group they are more than happy to stay there or try achieve an even higher status. While there are exceptions I've yet to see many in politics.
Standard disclaimer as above applies
John Major is an exception to that I feel. He didnt have a very elite upbringing. Read his autobiography. For the most Part an interesting read.
Mo Molam was a goodie too.
Besides, not sure I agree with your general point, you got to live it ruff in chavy estates, in order to be a good polictian, and a good thing for this country.
But yeah, when some people reach power, they seem to change. Unless it is our perception of them that actually changes.
Yeah, the two main parties do have more similarities than differences in the last decade or so. But still, don't you think that tories really stand for more power to the individual, less state control, lower taxes. Whereas labour, generally stands for more state control, higher taxes, and more social justice?
I have no idea what the tories or anybody else stands for to be honest.
Nobody is going to lower taxes, remember the government is run as a business at the end of the day. The level of income can't go down...
State control? Without putting a tinhat on, of course the government don't have control of things. Where do you think election money comes from. The money is paid for "assistance" with whatever corporate issue they have. Do you think all these government watch bodies are here to look after us? Majority of things are licensed by them via the government. Look at the 3G license fiasco, we are talking about radio spectrum here. The prices that they went for was just stupid. Yes I realise this sounds very much like an alumnati conspiracy but such is life.
Disclaimer : My own opinion
Bring back Maggie!
Too fooking right!!
I bet anyone who was affected in that era would go back to that compared to now!!;) This place has become insanity - gone mad!!
H.
Okay, lets shake it up a bit.
Capitalism by its very nature is negative towards its own people. The main basis of capitalism is that profit dictates success. This success is done at the expense of those lower down the chain. Sadly most political parties are driven by capitalists.
Oh dear that makes me sound like a right red :)
Disclaimer : Same as the above
Look at the 3G license fiasco
You just know we're all talking about that one!
errr, what fiasco? I'm betting you're the only person on here that's aware of that particular scandal, Gav :D
I find that the biggest problem with politics is that it assumes quite a high level of prior knowledge. So people just don't bother getting into it these days - there's just so much other 'stuff' to fill your time with.
Back in the day, when JB was young, people got into politics 'cos there was nowt else to get excited about. But now folks are more interested in BluRay V HD, or PS3 v X360, or iPod v errr whatever
I'm rambling now. Time for bed. Politics. . . . Zzzzzzz
You just know we're all talking about that one!
errr, what fiasco? I'm betting you're the only person on here that's aware of that particular scandal, Gav :D
Heheehe, okay, geek busted on that :p
as mentioned by others beforehand.... I hate the lot of em! They lie cheat and rob their way through life AND get paid for it. They havent done anything to help me in my life and doubt they will. I have never voted (and before those that say you should) I never will. there is no one out for the country.... hell you even have a PM that wasnt voted in..... yeah... works for me. :lol:
I used to be a liberal democrat becuase I thought they were cool and trendy, and stood for common sense and truth, and not the bullcrap of the main parties.
But now, I'm a bit older and a bit wiser ;) I want to support a party that stands for something, so I decided to give Labour my vote. ;)
I know Tony Blair got a bad press for Iraq, but I really think he did the right thing: invade Iraq.
Just hope they wont slap on a high tax for fast cars like supras, or a lot of us will have to give up our hobbies.
What party gets your vote at the moment? :d
was supposed to post a poll with this, but forgot to check the box.
Choices are Labour, Conservative, or Liberal Democrat.
:rlol: at wallpaper..
I agree with the goldreserve aspect, but how where they supposed to know at the time? How would you have known? It's easier with hindsight..
How has labour messed up exactly though? Yes there was the pensions, immigration, and data security scandals, but remember the tories and the boom, bust thing they had going? And all the sleeze. They became a joke. Admittedly Cameron has done a great job at turning things around, and they are serious contenders, and may even will then next gen. election. (in about 2 years isnt it?)
Are you taking the piss?
Have the Lib Dems ever been cool and trendy? They look like paedophiles and until Nick Clegg won the leadership they had some very odd policies and proposals. In some ways they are like the Ramblers association. The Lib Dems were the anti-fun party, they'd slap a tax on orgasms if they could.
I cannot see how Iraq could possibly be considered 'a good thing'. Blair should be in The Hauge for war crimes ffs. Nothing good whats so ever has come out of the Iraqi invasion, or Afganistan for that matter- 7 years of work there has just been undone because now we are talking to the Taliban to co-operate the vanquishing of Al Qa'ida. We now have global insecurity, $100 a barrel oil, huge terrorism threats and 4000 dead soldiers amongst the allies and god knows how many seriously wounded- 30,000? Independent reports claim 645,000 Iraqis have died, with 9 million homeless, 60% have no power or sanitation.
High tax on cars is already here- this year it will cost £400 to tax a band G car- that's 225g/km- ie fu*k all, that's big Mondeo territory. Luckily there's a loophole for 2001-2002 Supras or they would be paying £300. Do you know how much of that £1 a litre is tax- 85% of the whole. That doesn't mean we pay 85% tax on juice, it means we pay 85p tax on 15p's worth of petrol- is that not something like 550% tax?
Has Gold ever gone down, and not recovered? I'm not a business expert but it's funny how the city boys always consider gold as a safe bet and say when all else fails invest in gold. IIrc the press, pundits and experts all critised GB for selling off the gold.
As for Labour avoiding boom or bust- lets be fair, Gordon inherited a very strong economy from the conservatives, money has been very easy to buy and a major shortage of housing has driven the economy upwards. It was more sleight of hand & sheer luck than pure economic genuis that we avoided a reccesion in 2001. Cheap credit is coming home to roost now though, how much did the Gov loan (either actual, proposed or hypothetical) Nothern Rock? £56bn- if a buyer can't be found then the Gov has to either nationalise the bank and actually stump up the cash, or devalue Sterling by the same amount loaned. That's a lot of wonga- 8 nuclear power stations, 100 hospitals and you could refit the army with the change. It's a staggering amount of money, all for a bank worth £500m at the most.
Labour is as sleazy as the Tories ever were, alright they weren't caught shagging rentboys with an orange in their mouths, but does Cash for Honours ring any bells? Peter Mandelson? Dave 'I didn't know she was a minger' Blunkett? They are all the same, shagging, snorting and bribing their way around the circuit.
Labour have brought in 3000 new laws, the majority of which were already covered- ie "It is illegal to detonate a nuclear device". I reckon that one might have already been covered by about 15 laws, I don't think we needed to waste more money ratifying that one, and there's 2999 to go...
Labour have also hopped on the environmental band wagon and used it as a means of control and revenue- we can't fix the hole in the ozone with £50 notes can we. Labour- and the Lib Dems put 'Envy' in environment. If they genuinely gave a shit they would have proposed the new nuclear powerstations ten years ago, made all trains, taxis and buses electric, make solar pannels mandatory on all new build houses and stopped subsidising farmers to grow feck all and to grow crops or livestock and try to reduce our need for imports of food, energy and consumer goods.
Perhaps they should have saved Rover and had them make ministerial and public sector cars? How many police cars here are built overseas for example?
Interestingly Biofuel is now seen as not actually that green now the entire dust to dust lifecycle has been calculated- how many other green ideas are not as friendly as they were advertised?
Good points Gazboy, it's a sorry, sorry state of affairs
A mate of mine sent me this yesterday, and it just about sums it up for me.
>>>
Does anyone believe that New Labour ever existed, anymore ? Class envy is still the principle driving force behind every decision.
We have had to endure the systematic distruction of all we hold dear over the past ten years and for what? So that Socialists can control our every move.
We no longer have any decent schools and those that still try and provide an education are undergoing another attempt to destroy them.
The NHS, which for thirty years has been bankrupt, has ceased to be a place where the primary function is care of the sick and is just a souce of employment for those unable to get a job doing anything else.
The police force at the top is riddled with politically motivated activists that think the job is about making criminals part of society rather than catching them. This has meant that honest hard working coppers no longer have any incilination to do the right thing for fear of being seen as hostile to the community.
You cannot speak about any section of society that causes incitement to violence and problems for fear of being thrown in jail.
You can be locked up for weeks at a time without charge for no reason whatsoever.
If you criticise unfetered immigration you are a racist.
If you criticise the damage caused by EU integration you are a bigot.
If you work in the public sector you get to retire early, mostly with a final salary pension.
If you work in the private sector you have to flog your guts out for up to seven years longer with a money purchase pension.
If you do have a private pension large amonuts of money that goes into it gets stolen by the Chancellor to pay for projects that noone cares about, largely benefitting the workshy.
1.5 million unemployed with 3 million on incapacity benefit, no longer means 4.5 million unemployed.
Tax is so exhorbitent that most people can no longer afford to pay it without resorting to debt.
If you are a rich foreigner (preferably one that donates to the Labour Party) you can do what you like.
If you are a working class Brit , you cant do anything without someone either presenting you with a bill or spouting petty rules at you.
The elctoral system is adjudged to be as corrupt as some third world republics due to gerrymandering and illegal practices in both the local and Scottish elections.
Add the Human Rights' Act, The European Constitution, The Iraq war, Afghanistan, Kosovo, the dodgy dossier, the pointless ban on foxhunting, Death of Michael Kelly, Bernie Ecclestone, Peter Hain, Mandelson (Twice) ..... et al
Can anyone tell me, with a straight face that Britain has not been damaged in a way that it will take decades to repair?
All of you that can, do yourselves a big favour and leave Britain. I did and i will never return.
Let them try and govern what's left when we have all gone and there is noone left to do the work
I just love the way they can all vote on their own pay increases.. wouldnt we all love to do that :)
BTW this is off-topic and needs to be moved, mods!
I have never voted and never will under the current system, for a number of reasons (in reverse order of importance):
3) We don't have real proportional representation. I live in a constituency with a consistent 5,000-10,000 majority so my 1 puny vote does not make a jot of difference (oh - and if anyone comes with the "...if everybody thought like that...." line, then the answer is "yes. If everybody thought like that then of course I would start voting, because my vote WOULD make a difference." Don't expect that ever to happen, though!).
2) As mentioned before, they're all pretty much the same - they say what they want to get votes and then do whatever the hell they like when they get in anyhow, so you don't really know what you're voting for. I had this idea where an independent body would actually assess how well an incumbent government had met their pre-election promises during the preceeding term. Any shortfall would be converted into a corresponding penalty in the following election (votes/seats taken off or something).
1) I am not qualified to vote! I consider myself pretty up-to-date with current affairs, a reasonably intelligent (haha!), well-read (bwahahahaha!) person. But still, am I really qualified to know whether it's best to invade Iraq or not? Am I qualified to know whether we should join the Euro? NO. Of course not. I am not privvy to all the information that would be needed to make the right decision. I've no idea of all the political or economic ramifications of joining the Euro. I've no idea what the effect on the UK economy dissing the US by not supporting their military activity would have. So I can't possibly decide what's best for the country!
Gaz Walker
17-01-08, 10:01
Brilliant post Gaz, loved this bit!
Are you taking the piss?
Have the Lib Dems ever been cool and trendy? They look like paedophiles
:rlol:
Gaz.
I vote we move this thread to Off topic :d
:yeahthat: Someone move this crap out of Supra chat, please.
Shouldn't this be in word association?
Nah! It's all about being 'Off Topic' these days.
The problem is extreme parties like the BNP could gain support even more in the future. After all if the usual suspects such as labour and tories are unable to do the job people who would normally vote for them would consider voting in a way that would result in action.
For instance if the BNP said they would sort out immigration and jobs for 'british' only people, how many people would hear that and forget about the more extreme views those parties share.
Too fooking right!!
I bet anyone who was affected in that era would go back to that compared to now!!;) This place has become insanity - gone mad!!
H.
Have you been on a train lately?
The last time I did there were 3 people to every one seat and I had to stand for the entire 3 hour journey.
I'm not sure every decision she made was a good one.
I have no idea what the tories or anybody else stands for to be honest.
Nobody is going to lower taxes, remember the government is run as a business at the end of the day. The level of income can't go down...
State control? Without putting a tinhat on, of course the government don't have control of things. Where do you think election money comes from. The money is paid for "assistance" with whatever corporate issue they have. Do you think all these government watch bodies are here to look after us? Majority of things are licensed by them via the government. Look at the 3G license fiasco, we are talking about radio spectrum here. The prices that they went for was just stupid. Yes I realise this sounds very much like an alumnati conspiracy but such is life.
Disclaimer : My own opinion
The level of income as you say, might not go down no. But certain groups can be taxed more, so effectively some groups will be better off finacially with another government.
So your saying that the gov, charged way beyond any normal radio bandwith, for the 3g licence? Why not though? 3g a big company, and its using that bandwidth for a different purpose. Yes they are not mugs, and need to make money.
Bring back Maggie!
;) All conservatives think that way. Getting watery eyes at the mention of her name. Love the way Gordon Brown invited her to no.10 for a cup of tea, and a photocall to embarass cameron.
Okay, lets shake it up a bit.
Capitalism by its very nature is negative towards its own people. The main basis of capitalism is that profit dictates success. This success is done at the expense of those lower down the chain. Sadly most political parties are driven by capitalists.
Oh dear that makes me sound like a right red :)
Disclaimer : Same as the above
You are right about capitalism, but policitians are usually rounded people that make decision based on a range of issues, not just a mechanical response to capitalist ideology.
as mentioned by others beforehand.... I hate the lot of em! They lie cheat and rob their way through life AND get paid for it. They havent done anything to help me in my life and doubt they will. I have never voted (and before those that say you should) I never will. there is no one out for the country.... hell you even have a PM that wasnt voted in..... yeah... works for me. :lol:
They haven't helped you? How *could* they have helped you?
Are you taking the piss?
Have the Lib Dems ever been cool and trendy? They look like paedophiles and until Nick Clegg won the leadership they had some very odd policies and proposals. In some ways they are like the Ramblers association. The Lib Dems were the anti-fun party, they'd slap a tax on orgasms if they could.
Lol. I was young and foolish - I needed a cute party (I notice they are getting cute women on the front benches, to offset the ming effect no doubt). So they are a high tax party? I agree, and they don't ever seem to be afraid of admitting it.
I cannot see how Iraq could possibly be considered 'a good thing'. Blair should be in The Hauge for war crimes ffs. Nothing good whats so ever has come out of the Iraqi invasion, or Afganistan for that matter- 7 years of work there has just been undone because now we are talking to the Taliban to co-operate the vanquishing of Al Qa'ida. We now have global insecurity, $100 a barrel oil, huge terrorism threats and 4000 dead soldiers amongst the allies and god knows how many seriously wounded- 30,000? Independent reports claim 645,000 Iraqis have died, with 9 million homeless, 60% have no power or sanitation.
Blair a war crimimal? Lol. No, more like a hero, yea he made mistakes but the whole point is that he is elected to make decisions based on the information he has, and for the good of the country. I dont think he should be penalised for that. Yeah its a sorry state, but what is seven years in the scheme of things? Would you rather not try and suppress terrorism, than wait till it comes onto your shores? Brave soldiers, and support staff are out there fighting for us to help keep us safe, and becuase they are professionals. It's a long term battle, but surely one worth fighting? Terrorism and anti americanism didnt suddenly spring into life because we and the US invaded iraq and afghanistan, its been around and brewing at getting worse for ages. Even hundreds of years!
High tax on cars is already here- this year it will cost £400 to tax a band G car- that's 225g/km- ie f*ck all, that's big Mondeo territory. Luckily there's a loophole for 2001-2002 Supras or they would be paying £300. Do you know how much of that £1 a litre is tax- 85% of the whole. That doesn't mean we pay 85% tax on juice, it means we pay 85p tax on 15p's worth of petrol- is that not something like 550% tax?
Oh, lol. I really doubt that I will be paying £400 road tax on my supra this year. That will not happen. Not even half that. And yeah, petrol needs to be taxed - partly for revenue, but even more so for environmental reasons, and rightly so.
Has Gold ever gone down, and not recovered? I'm not a business expert but it's funny how the city boys always consider gold as a safe bet and say when all else fails invest in gold. IIrc the press, pundits and experts all critised GB for selling off the gold.
Yeah, well I bow to people with real knowledge on the subject. Seems like the did make a big mistake, but, it they may have been badly advised by the private sector, surely decisions like that arent done on a whim.
As for Labour avoiding boom or bust- lets be fair, Gordon inherited a very strong economy from the conservatives, money has been very easy to buy and a major shortage of housing has driven the economy upwards. It was more sleight of hand & sheer luck than pure economic genuis that we avoided a reccesion in 2001. Cheap credit is coming home to roost now though, how much did the Gov loan (either actual, proposed or hypothetical) Nothern Rock? £56bn- if a buyer can't be found then the Gov has to either nationalise the bank and actually stump up the cash, or devalue Sterling by the same amount loaned. That's a lot of wonga- 8 nuclear power stations, 100 hospitals and you could refit the army with the change. It's a staggering amount of money, all for a bank worth £500m at the most.
Thats right, Major handed over a stable economy, and Blair had to prove that he would not mess up the economy so he kept to the tory spending plans for a year or so after he gained office in 1997.
Its not our government's fault that the sub prime US lending hit us, and drove up the cost of mortgages, and made Northern Rock fail. I think the Gov did the right thing with a rescue pacage for them. Think if you had money in northern rock. I know I would have liked them to bail it out, if I had money there.
Labour is as sleazy as the Tories ever were, alright they weren't caught shagging rentboys with an orange in their mouths, but does Cash for Honours ring any bells? Peter Mandelson? Dave 'I didn't know she was a minger' Blunkett? They are all the same, shagging, snorting and bribing their way around the circuit.
Yeah there will be corruption in any party. I believe the tories were worse at the time in 1997, and presently they seem about as bad as eachother in that respect. Of course labour will be more under the spotlight becuase they are in office, and rightly so under the spolight. But cash for honors? That was going on under the tories, and pretty much always has in our system since it began. Sex and power, happens all the time. I know if I was blunket, or prescott, I would find it very hard to turn down a bit of half decent skirt in the office if I was not getting it good at home.
Labour have brought in 3000 new laws, the majority of which were already covered- ie "It is illegal to detonate a nuclear device". I reckon that one might have already been covered by about 15 laws, I don't think we needed to waste more money ratifying that one, and there's 2999 to go...
Yea I agree, there are too many laws and regs, and red tape. Hopefully Labour will take this aboard and streamline a bit.
Labour have also hopped on the environmental band wagon and used it as a means of control and revenue- we can't fix the hole in the ozone with £50 notes can we. Labour- and the Lib Dems put 'Envy' in environment. If they genuinely gave a shit they would have proposed the new nuclear powerstations ten years ago, made all trains, taxis and buses electric, make solar pannels mandatory on all new build houses and stopped subsidising farmers to grow feck all and to grow crops or livestock and try to reduce our need for imports of food, energy and consumer goods.
Perhaps they should have saved Rover and had them make ministerial and public sector cars? How many police cars here are built overseas for example?
Interesting. I believe they would not have had the public support at the time to do all these green things. Maybe they should have. It takes guts to go against public opinion and do whats right. Would the tories have? All easier with hindsight. Yes green taxes are a good source of revenue, but at the end of the day, business will not react in an enviromental way unless they can 1) make more money by going green 2) They are taxed more heavily. Taxation is the way to change businesses' hearts. Then they will see the other arguments.
Interestingly Biofuel is now seen as not actually that green now the entire dust to dust lifecycle has been calculated- how many other green ideas are not as friendly as they were advertised?
So your saying that the gov, charged way beyond any normal radio bandwith, for the 3g licence? Why not though? 3g a big company, and its using that bandwidth for a different purpose. Yes they are not mugs, and need to make money.
3 was only one of the companies that got a license, however where did all the money go and it was a silly large amount... Don't recall it going into the people. In fact the licenses were so expensive it forced a few companies out of business thereby putting people out of employment, and this is only one industry of many that has been affected.
Blair a war crimimal? Lol. No, more like a hero, yea he made mistakes but the whole point is that he is elected to make decisions based on the information he has, and for the good of the country. I dont think he should be penalised for that. Yeah its a sorry state, but what is seven years in the scheme of things? Would you rather not try and suppress terrorism, than wait till it comes onto your shores? Brave soldiers, and support staff are out there fighting for us to help keep us safe, and becuase they are professionals. It's a long term battle, but surely one worth fighting? Terrorism and anti americanism didnt suddenly spring into life because we and the US invaded iraq and afghanistan, its been around and brewing at getting worse for ages. Even hundreds of years
Okay, hero?? By your own words he made mistakes... and you saying he shouldn't be penalised?? They were his mistakes...
Answer this one question then 'Why do YOU think we invade Iraq'...bear in mind a few years previous we supplied them with money and arms.
Disclaimer : Not getting arsey, I do enjoy a good debate :)
3 was only one of the companies that got a license, however where did all the money go and it was a silly large amount... Don't recall it going into the people. In fact the licenses were so expensive it forced a few companies out of business thereby putting people out of employment, and this is only one industry of many that has been affected.
interesting. as you say, sounds very illuminati..
Good points Gazboy, it's a sorry, sorry state of affairs
A mate of mine sent me this yesterday, and it just about sums it up for me.
>>>
Does anyone believe that New Labour ever existed, anymore ? Class envy is still the principle driving force behind every decision.
Hmm. Don't think so.
We have had to endure the systematic distruction of all we hold dear over the past ten years and for what? So that Socialists can control our every move.
WTF?
We no longer have any decent schools and those that still try and provide an education are undergoing another attempt to destroy them.
Bit negative, no?
The NHS, which for thirty years has been bankrupt, has ceased to be a place where the primary function is care of the sick and is just a souce of employment for those unable to get a job doing anything else.
Riight. Sorry. Don't agree with this. Yes our NHS has lost loads of money in overegulation, and its far from perfect, but still its free. Show me other free healthcare systems around the world?
The police force at the top is riddled with politically motivated activists that think the job is about making criminals part of society rather than catching them. This has meant that honest hard working coppers no longer have any incilination to do the right thing for fear of being seen as hostile to the community.
There was institututional rascim in many parts of society, from football to the legal proffession. The police force, has been crippled with paperwork, as has the NHS. Labour is working to rectify this, but as for polictical correctness crippling the police force? I think it was needed, to redress the balance. Obviously it can get out of hand, eg banning xmas celebration, and I feel a lot of ethnic minorty questionaires either should not exist, or could be done better.
You cannot speak about any section of society that causes incitement to violence and problems for fear of being thrown in jail.
Bit extreme. But I hear what you are saying. It's right to say what you feel is right, what is decent etc. Just how you go about doing it. A night of voicing your attitues about radical islam after 10 pints of stella, may not be the best way forward. ;)
You can be locked up for weeks at a time without charge for no reason whatsoever.
Lol. I think terror suspects should be locked and detain for a few weeks without charge. We have seen what damage terrorism can cause and should not tolerate it. But there is a small balance to be struck.
If you criticise unfetered immigration you are a racist.
Its true, you get that feeling. I agree, but we need to talk about this openly, becuase its a massive issue. Immigration can be positive and negative. Unfettered imigration, is really only going to be negative.
If you criticise the damage caused by EU integration you are a bigot.
What does bigot mean? That like a hypocrite? Why would you be a bigot for that? Surely its ok to talk about damage and the good of EU membership?
If you work in the public sector you get to retire early, mostly with a final salary pension.
I don't know much about this. Maybe it's cushier in a public sector job, but surely earning potential is higher in private sector?
If you work in the private sector you have to flog your guts out for up to seven years longer with a money purchase pension.
If you do have a private pension large amonuts of money that goes into it gets stolen by the Chancellor to pay for projects that noone cares about, largely benefitting the workshy.
Some Workshy, need projects and some support to get them back working again. You need to spend a little. Other workshys, need to prove that they can't work or get benefits removed. ITs a very delicate thing, and is not so clear cut as you may like to think.
1.5 million unemployed with 3 million on incapacity benefit, no longer means 4.5 million unemployed.
Yeah agreed, the figures are bad. And people are on the take. But this is being address by our government.
Tax is so exhorbitent that most people can no longer afford to pay it without resorting to debt.
People tend to spend more money than they have these days. You can't blame it all on tax.
If you are a rich foreigner (preferably one that donates to the Labour Party) you can do what you like.
Didn't Gordon Brown mention something last budget about non domicaled tax status being clamped down on? You know in the budget where he raised inheritance tax threshold.
If you are a working class Brit , you cant do anything without someone either presenting you with a bill or spouting petty rules at you.
Can you use the loo withought someone spouting rules at you? I dont happen to me, what did you do to get so many rules spouted at you?
The elctoral system is adjudged to be as corrupt as some third world republics due to gerrymandering and illegal practices in both the local and Scottish elections.
Oh, ok. The scottish election was a shambles becuase it was designed wrongly, and by eggheads, and not people who had their feet on the ground. Thats why so many votes were wasted.
But widespread corruption in the voting system in the uk? I think not. Where is your proof?
Add the Human Rights' Act, The European Constitution, The Iraq war, Afghanistan, Kosovo, the dodgy dossier, the pointless ban on foxhunting, Death of Michael Kelly, Bernie Ecclestone, Peter Hain, Mandelson (Twice) ..... et al
Foxhunting. It's nasty. But to be honest I can't really see a need to ban it. Its a tradition and a sport. Dody dossier, yeah that was a nasty period in time. Michael kelly commited sucidie cos of the pressure of a job, he was not murdered. Mandelson. Yeah he's greasy, but he helped modernise the labour party.
Can anyone tell me, with a straight face that Britain has not been damaged in a way that it will take decades to repair?
Yea, I can. Yes there as issues that take long time to sort out. But thats so of any party in goverment. Things aren't perfect, and they never will be.
All of you that can, do yourselves a big favour and leave Britain. I did and i will never return.
You left this great country? Sad. But don't suprise me one bit based on what you said.
Let them try and govern what's left when we have all gone and there is noone left to do the work
I doubt everyone will take your lead and leave. Yeah its not easy here all the time. But its worth fighting for, and sticking around.
I have never voted and never will under the current system, for a number of reasons (in reverse order of importance):
3) We don't have real proportional representation. I live in a constituency with a consistent 5,000-10,000 majority so my 1 puny vote does not make a jot of difference (oh - and if anyone comes with the "...if everybody thought like that...." line, then the answer is "yes. If everybody thought like that then of course I would start voting, because my vote WOULD make a difference." Don't expect that ever to happen, though!).
I dont believe in PR, yes your vote may not count as such. But in reality. If enough people vote like you do, then it will.
2) As mentioned before, they're all pretty much the same - they say what they want to get votes and then do whatever the hell they like when they get in anyhow, so you don't really know what you're voting for. I had this idea where an independent body would actually assess how well an incumbent government had met their pre-election promises during the preceeding term. Any shortfall would be converted into a corresponding penalty in the following election (votes/seats taken off or something).
Oooo nice idea. Would kind of like too see this happen.
1) I am not qualified to vote! I consider myself pretty up-to-date with current affairs, a reasonably intelligent (haha!), well-read (bwahahahaha!) person. But still, am I really qualified to know whether it's best to invade Iraq or not? Am I qualified to know whether we should join the Euro? NO. Of course not. I am not privvy to all the information that would be needed to make the right decision. I've no idea of all the political or economic ramifications of joining the Euro. I've no idea what the effect on the UK economy dissing the US by not supporting their military activity would have. So I can't possibly decide what's best for the country!
Very good point. You dont have to be perfect to vote though. You have that right. And its a shame if you dont use it. Just base it on what every knowledge you have. Even base it on intinct. Surely you can look into a guys eyes, and tell a bit what they are about? Or see how they act and behave on TV? But I take your point.
Carl_S - I think you're getting confused between "3" the company and "3G" the 3rd generation standard.
Those licenses really helped to stuff up the market, a big mistake for all involved.
That green text hurts my eyes, can I blame labour for that or is it the green party?
Those licenses really helped to stuff up the market, a big mistake for all involved.
All involved? Didn't the government make an absolute fortune out of it?
All involved? Didn't the government make an absolute fortune out of it?
Funny that isn't it? Capitalism at it's finest... Those that do the hard work get made redundant and those that go to golf make a fortune....
And no I wasn't involved with the 3G licenses, but I do know people who were involved.
This has to be a wind up.
This has to be a wind up.
Almost feels like a labour recruitment campaign :p
Got a long struggle on his hands if he thinks he will convince me :)
This has to be a wind up.
Again! I wonder what the next Carl_S thread will be? He has done religion and politics, so what other subject will help feed his need?
Again! I wonder what the next Carl_S thread will be? He has done religion and politics, so what other subject will help feed his need?
I think the next one will be an in-depth look at the comparison between a parallel and a sequential twin turbo set-up on a 2JZ, with a technical how-to pictorial guide for making the change.......
......or maybe something less useful. :D
I think the next one will be an in-depth look at the comparison between a parallel and a sequential twin turbo set-up on a 2JZ, with a technical how-to pictorial guide for making the change.......
......or maybe something less useful. :D
My guess is that it will either be something to do with sex (possibly asking about homosexuals etc) or racism. In fact, I may start and thread with a poll asking for opinions :innocent:
Bnp
:rlol: Do they even have a manifesto?
Okay, hero?? By your own words he made mistakes... and you saying he shouldn't be penalised?? They were his mistakes...
Answer this one question then 'Why do YOU think we invade Iraq'...bear in mind a few years previous we supplied them with money and arms.
Disclaimer : Not getting arsey, I do enjoy a good debate :)
Ok, bring it on. ;)
Yeah he made mistakes, like we all do. Being penalised in law for Iraq is way beyond anything he deserves.
I think we (UK) invaded for 3 main reasons 1) To show solidarity with the US, 2) To further the strenght and power of this country abroad. 3) Becuase we felt there was evidence showing IRAQI WMD.
Carl_S - I think you're getting confused between "3" the company and "3G" the 3rd generation standard.
Those licenses really helped to stuff up the market, a big mistake for all involved.
My Typo, My bad. I do know the difference.
That green text hurts my eyes, can I blame labour for that or is it the green party?
Try moving a few inches away from the monitor. Also getting out and having a walk outside can help.
I think we (UK) invaded for 3 main reasons 1) To show solidarity with the US, 2) To further the strenght and power of this country abroad. 3) Becuase we felt there was evidence showing IRAQI WMD.
1. Solidarity with the US? Why? we are part of europe not america.
2. How does fighting a battle off shore in a completely different country for a half baked reason show strength in a country. Sounds like big-nuts-syndrome.
3. What WMD?? I don't believe they were ever found where they?? And if they were WMD's they would have been built from or with our resources.
I realize that attrocities where taking place however I firmly don't believe that was the primary reason....not 100% sure but I reckon the stuff under the sand may be the true reason.
:rlol: Do they even have a manifesto?
Of course:
http://www.bnp.org.uk/
Bit like my manifesto really.
This has to be a wind up.
Again! I wonder what the next Carl_S thread will be? He has done religion and politics, so what other subject will help feed his need?
I think the next one will be an in-depth look at the comparison between a parallel and a sequential twin turbo set-up on a 2JZ, with a technical how-to pictorial guide for making the change.......
......or maybe something less useful. :D
My guess is that it will either be something to do with sex (possibly asking about homosexuals etc) or racism. In fact, I may start and thread with a poll asking for opinions :innocent:
Religion and politics, two of the taboo subjects that you don't chat about in the pub.
I'm thinking of adding a poll to this thread. Should I lock it or should I lock it? What do you think? ;)
Try moving a few inches away from the monitor. Also getting out and having a walk outside can help.
Try wandering around in my ignored user dungeon.
*waves goodbye*
I'm thinking of adding a poll to this thread. So I lock it or should I lock it? What do you think? ;)
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee66/blackie1980/threadlock.jpg
I'll put my hand up to baiting.... My views are my real views though.
Try wandering around in my ignored user dungeon.
*waves goodbye*
Likewise.
Likewise.
The only problem being that it doesn't block the threads they start, just the posts they make - it's a start though and far less annoying.
It's been a while since I've used this feature as those who have been in there in the past usually get banned but I feel better already :)
1. Solidarity with the US? Why? we are part of europe not america.
Yeah but no but. We have had a close relationship with the US ever since they helped us in WW2. Why should we have left them in the lurch after 9/11? Terrorism was an attack on both our countries, and the free values of the west. We had a Pretty strong reason to stand with them. But the overiding reason is reason 3 below.
2. How does fighting a battle off shore in a completely different country for a half baked reason show strength in a country. Sounds like big-nuts-syndrome.
No, it's about being a big player on the world stage, if we didn't take the intiative then we would have been less of a power. I think we are stronger side by side with america (but not hand in hand) than just another country in Europe. And yes the oil, and restructuring contracts all play a part I think.
3. What WMD?? I don't believe they were ever found where they?? And if they were WMD's they would have been built from or with our resources.
The WMD, we should be all pretty happy that there were none. But in view of the life lost and cost of war it's a pretty unhappy scenario. I remember Blair saying that WMD would be found, like the barrel of a smoking gun. In that sense, yeah, it's a let down. But he was only acting on the info he had at the time surely. Who handed him that info? It can't be all labours and Tony Blair's fault. Although he has always stood by what he did becuase he thought he was right. We need people like him. :)
I realize that attrocities where taking place however I firmly don't believe that was the primary reason....not 100% sure but I reckon the stuff under the sand may be the true reason.
Oil , Oil, Oil, everyone from corner shop merhants to PHD toters, say the same. It was about oil. Energy suppy for our supra's and factories, and life as we know it. But I just don't get it. Oil is a factor, but no where near the importance that people give it.
tooquicktostop
17-01-08, 16:50
Maybe we are all another Uni experiment, you remember the last guy who did that last year sometime, he was asking daft/reactive questions or posting reactive threads and was using the reaction as part of his psychology course to study forum/group reactions or something, or am I giving Carl too much credit :D
Maybe we are all another Uni experiment, you remember the last guy who did that last year sometime, he was asking daft/reactive questions or posting reactive threads and was using the reaction as part of his psychology course to study forum/group reactions or something, or am I giving Carl too much credit :D
I did think that he might be back to do his 2nd year project or something.
Oil , Oil, Oil, everyone from corner shop merhants to PHD toters, say the same. It was about oil. Energy suppy for our supra's and factories, and life as we know it. But I just don't get it. Oil is a factor, but no where near the importance that people give it.
You want to bet, we live in the industrial age at the moment, without fuel at this point in time, the world would stop. Alternative sources haven't been given any positive attention. The fact alone that the majority speaks of it can only mean one of two things.
1. There is a big conspiracy going on and millions have been fed disinformation.
or
2. There really is a problem with the supplies.
I firmly believe there is both. Alternative fuel options are out there but they have been supressed/purchased by the big oil companies. They don't want to loose their cash cows. Look at Dubai, I have to admire the forward thinking of people there. They know they are onto a goldmine with the oil, but they are also aware that once the oil goes it is nothing but a desert. So with all the income from the oil production they are building a paradise which will keep the income flowing in. Good on them is all I will say with that venture.
Of course:
http://www.bnp.org.uk/
Bit like my manifesto really.
Read your manifesto. As a joke it's funny. It has somepoints that I agree with, and others that I firmly disagree with. Nice to see you are thinking though. :)
Actually I'm a BNP member.
Banq National de Paris. :p
But seriously, even the BNP will accept BME members.
Maybe we are all another Uni experiment, you remember the last guy who did that last year sometime, he was asking daft/reactive questions or posting reactive threads and was using the reaction as part of his psychology course to study forum/group reactions or something, or am I giving Carl too much credit :D
Damn I'm sorry that I come across that way. :( I'm just genuinely interested in these subjects. And yeah, I'm interested in pschology too, but not doing a course or anything like that on it.
Damn I'm sorry that I come across that way. :( I'm just genuinely interested in these subjects. And yeah, I'm interested in pschology too, but not doing a course or anything like that on it.
In order to study the pyschology aspect of a situation you need to be fairly neutral not to contaminate the subject.... You seem to have very strong views and therefore aren't objective :) Do you really want me to analyze you? :)
tooquicktostop
17-01-08, 17:07
You started off your MKIV posting career with daft almost uneducated questions/posts and slowly the posts have become very intense and political, you dont become this educated overnight, I have my suspicions and therefore will be avoiding your posts, I feel you should really think about joining a chat forum for your daily quiz and leave a car forum alone or until you want to talk about Supras for once, IMO of course !;)
You want to bet, we live in the industrial age at the moment, without fuel at this point in time, the world would stop. Alternative sources haven't been given any positive attention. The fact alone that the majority speaks of it can only mean one of two things.
1. There is a big conspiracy going on and millions have been fed disinformation.
or
2. There really is a problem with the supplies.
I firmly believe there is both. Alternative fuel options are out there but they have been supressed/purchased by the big oil companies. They don't want to loose their cash cows. Look at Dubai, I have to admire the forward thinking of people there. They know they are onto a goldmine with the oil, but they are also aware that once the oil goes it is nothing but a desert. So with all the income from the oil production they are building a paradise which will keep the income flowing in. Good on them is all I will say with that venture.
Yeah Gav, I see your point about Dubai.
As for oil being some kind of conspracy reason, I just don't buy it, that and the disinformation. Yes there was "sexing up", but no mass delusion or mass conspiracy. Control of oil and the power that it brings must have been an incidental military reason, but I believe it was not the major one that cost us lives in combat.
If you are so sure that Oil was the main reason for the invasion of Iraq (GW2) can you suppy any kind of evidence or hints to where this information lies? Or answer this: How does invading a country and conquering it equate to having long term control of the revenue of its natural oil reserves?
Maybe we are all another Uni experiment, you remember the last guy who did that last year sometime, he was asking daft/reactive questions or posting reactive threads and was using the reaction as part of his psychology course to study forum/group reactions or something, or am I giving Carl too much credit :D
new thread: paranoid or on point? but now you have mentioned it............
You started off your MKIV posting career with daft almost uneducated questions/posts and slowly the posts have become very intense and political, you dont become this educated overnight, I have my suspicions and therefore will be avoiding your posts, I feel you should really think about joining a chat forum for your daily quiz and leave a car forum alone or until you want to talk about Supras for once, IMO of course !;)
Jesus guys, didn't realise you were thinking that way about me so strongly. If you want, can a mod lock me from off topic, then I won't post here again, and will only come to this forum to post supra related issues. It's a bit sad, but if it means you guys are happier I'll go along with it. Can't be fairer than that...
If you want, can a mod lock me from off topic, then I won't post here again
no will power there mate?;)
In order to study the pyschology aspect of a situation you need to be fairly neutral not to contaminate the subject.... You seem to have very strong views and therefore aren't objective :) Do you really want me to analyze you? :)
tee hee, just said that I was interested in Psychology. Damn, So my views on politics seem strong? I thought they were quite moderate.
No personal analysis needed. Thanks though Gav. ;)
no will power there mate?;)
Nah, my will power sucks Blackie. You're spot on. Would make my life easier too. :)
Unrelated question Carl but are you working on a thesis of some kind for university ?
Unrelated question Carl but are you working on a thesis of some kind for university ?
lol, read post 64
lol, read post 64
Do you mean 63 ?
Great minds and all that ;)
Frome previous experiences we have had people come on here and slowly integrate themselves over time their agenda becomes known.
Unrelated question Carl but are you working on a thesis of some kind for university ?
Do you mean 63 ?
Great minds and all that ;)
Frome previous experiences we have had people come on here and slowly integrate themselves over time their agenda becomes known.
I can understand your apprehension, but I have no hidden agenda, and I'm not using you guys for a project for uni/college or suchlike. Just want to be accepted here, respect and love would be nice too, but I'll settle for acceptance. ;)
And er, failing all that, tolerate I guess would be the operative word. ;)
As for oil being some kind of conspracy reason, I just don't buy it, that and the disinformation. Yes there was "sexing up", but no mass delusion or mass conspiracy. Control of oil and the power that it brings must have been an incidental military reason, but I believe it was not the major one that cost us lives in combat.
If you are so sure that Oil was the main reason for the invasion of Iraq (GW2) can you suppy any kind of evidence or hints to where this information lies? Or answer this: How does invading a country and conquering it equate to having long term control of the revenue of its natural oil reserves?
Have you heard the conspiracy that this is maybe actually about nuclear power?
Especially with the similarities with the current situation over Iran.
The theory is that oil IS going to get too expensive. If it's not Iraqi oil, it's Iranian oil or Venezuelan oil or something.
So the next step is widespread adoption of nuclear power.
Now at the moment, only a handful of nations are capable of delivering and installing nuclear power facilities, because you have to refine uranium to a certain degree (4%, or something) to do so.
Funnily enough, the "nuclear facilities" discovered in Iraq, and in existence in Iran are apparently designed for refining uranium to...guess what.....4%, and not the 96% refinement required for actually producing WMD.
The idea being that the US ultimately lead a consortium with the plan of monopolising and licensing nuclear power facilities to the rest of the world.
:search:
dangerousandy
17-01-08, 18:38
I always vote Tory - hardcore right winger through and through
downimpact
17-01-08, 18:40
i'd never vote tory as they destroyed our once great nation. Tax cuts lead to no roads, no nhs, no denistry, no opticians, no education! It's absurd the country is in such a state from years of abuse. You can't fix this over night as people wont pay for years of missed back tax.
Having said that good labour came in got things moving in the right direction but they now seem to want to protect us from ourselves, which is stupid, making laws against people co-ercing our behaviour not going with the peoples wants.
Which leaves the lib dems which for me are in the middle between the other two but even then i don't like all their policies at times either.
Have you heard the conspiracy that this is maybe actually about nuclear power?
Especially with the similarities with the current situation over Iran.
The theory is that oil IS going to get too expensive. If it's not Iraqi oil, it's Iranian oil or Venezuelan oil or something.
So the next step is widespread adoption of nuclear power.
Now at the moment, only a handful of nations are capable of delivering and installing nuclear power facilities, because you have to refine uranium to a certain degree (4%, or something) to do so.
Funnily enough, the "nuclear facilities" discovered in Iraq, and in existence in Iran are apparently designed for refining uranium to...guess what.....4%, and not the 96% refinement required for actually producing WMD.
The idea being that the US ultimately lead a consortium with the plan of monopolising and licensing nuclear power facilities to the rest of the world.
:search:
Sounds like we will never know if that was ever true ( I doubt it is), so we might as well just carry on, becuase no one will tell us will they, no one in the know.
It's interesting, though I do wonder if the science behind is correct.
Would make a good movie no doubt.
I always vote Tory - hardcore right winger through and through
:) good on ya
Bnp
I hope you're watching BNP wives on SkyOne.
It's hilarious.
All involved? Didn't the government make an absolute fortune out of it?
They did. They made billions and it makes me sick. They could have put limits on the bids but they didn't, they knew the operators would panic and put in silly bids to ensure their future and saw it as a great way to make money.
If the operators had used some common sense it wouldn't have been so much of a problem. They spent so much money on the licenses, that there was nothing left to pay for the networks. Add to that the assumption that everyone would want 3G...:rolleyes: it was a complete cluster f*ck. No one was really interested and it was thought at one stage that it would be a complete flop.
i'd never vote tory as they destroyed our once great nation. Tax cuts lead to no roads, no nhs, no denistry, no opticians, no education! It's absurd the country is in such a state from years of abuse. You can't fix this over night as people wont pay for years of missed back tax.
Having said that good labour came in got things moving in the right direction but they now seem to want to protect us from ourselves, which is stupid, making laws against people co-ercing our behaviour not going with the peoples wants.
Which leaves the lib dems which for me are in the middle between the other two but even then i don't like all their policies at times either.
The economy was strong when Labour came into power. It's not how much tax you take, it's what you do with it.
I'd vote for Plaid Cwmru but I'm worried that all I'll get on my telly is frickin S4C :rolleyes:
Max Headroom
18-01-08, 00:09
:rlol: at wallpaper..
I agree with the goldreserve aspect, but how where they supposed to know at the time? How would you have known? It's easier with hindsight..
How has labour messed up exactly though? Yes there was the pensions, immigration, and data security scandals, but remember the tories and the boom, bust thing they had going? And all the sleeze. They became a joke. Admittedly Cameron has done a great job at turning things around, and they are serious contenders, and may even will then next gen. election. (in about 2 years isnt it?)
Labour not sleazy then? Mandelson with his dodgy loan application. Sawar with passport for his mates, cash for honours. Blair Witch not paying train fare and setting up a law firm to deal with the Human Rights Act. The EU Treaty signed without consultation or referendum, Peter Hain and the "forgotten" £103K. Labour are a far greater joke than the conservatives ever were. Our NHS is now the sick man of Europe, I would dread having to go into hospital, we have no joined up public transport system. We are being taxed far greater than we were under the tories. Each year new taxes are brought in to take more money from us. Where does it all go?? Gay and Lesbian Stop Smoking co-ordinators, Hospital Waiting List Rubber stamper Manager.
We are sleepwalking into a democratically elected socialist state
Labour not sleazy then? Mandelson with his dodgy loan application. Sawar with passport for his mates, cash for honours. Blair Witch not paying train fare and setting up a law firm to deal with the Human Rights Act. The EU Treaty signed without consultation or referendum, Peter Hain and the "forgotten" £103K. Labour are a far greater joke than the conservatives ever were. Our NHS is now the sick man of Europe, I would dread having to go into hospital, we have no joined up public transport system. We are being taxed far greater than we were under the tories. Each year new taxes are brought in to take more money from us. Where does it all go?? Gay and Lesbian Stop Smoking co-ordinators, Hospital Waiting List Rubber stamper Manager.
We are sleepwalking into a democratically elected socialist state
Labour a far greater joke than the tories? I dont think so. Now, there is certainly plenty to poke fun at labout at. But before they lost power in 1997 the tories were a laughing stock.
Yes there is going to be sleaze anywhere where there are humans, and power. But I feel the tories are the worst for it. As for the referendum on the EU treaty, it wasn't necessary becuase it wasnt substantially different and our national interests were fully protected by the non-negotiable red lines. I think it included red lines in defense, tax and social policy. Cameron and his lovers are only making a fuss about it to score political points.
But give him credit, he'd done a great job at turning the tories round, and getting them looking beyond weeping for maggie to come back.
Out of interest, how old are you Carl? (Not a piss take, it's a genuine question)
Out of interest, how old are you Carl? (Not a piss take, it's a genuine question)
I can sense the genuiness Homer, but im rather reticent to say. Somewhere between 25 and 35. Sorry. Unless you want to play a quick game, you guess, and I say higher or lower. ;)
I can sense the genuiness Homer, but im rather reticent to say. Somewhere between 25 and 35. Sorry. Unless you want to play a quick game, you guess, and I say higher or lower. ;)
So you're more or less my age, judging by a few of your previous posts I'd assumed you were younger and had not lived through both the UK's more recent peak capitalist and socialist eras. Your views will most likely have a great deal to do with your social (particularly your families/social groups) standing during the peak of each government.
yer, i woz der init ;)
What is that supposed to mean?
Can I make a shot in the dark here and I don't mean to offend, have you travelled a lot?
Max Headroom
18-01-08, 09:42
Labour a far greater joke than the tories? I dont think so. Now, there is certainly plenty to poke fun at labout at. But before they lost power in 1997 the tories were a laughing stock.
Yes there is going to be sleaze anywhere where there are humans, and power. But I feel the tories are the worst for it. As for the referendum on the EU treaty, it wasn't necessary becuase it wasnt substantially different and our national interests were fully protected by the non-negotiable red lines. I think it included red lines in defense, tax and social policy. Cameron and his lovers are only making a fuss about it to score political points.
But give him credit, he'd done a great job at turning the tories round, and getting them looking beyond weeping for maggie to come back.
I am guessing from your answer you are a staunch Labour man and you believe what you want. I for one remember the 3 day working week, power strikes and when the refuse was piled up in the streets in the 70s.
When we signed up for the EU Common Market, that was what it was, a common market where all the countries could freely trade with each other. Before the signing of the treaty, GB promised a referendum, HE LIED, and signed it anyway and even then he cocked it up! All the leaders were there but him.
Labours "tax and spend" has hit those it purports to champion, the poor, the old, those living in rural areas. He is taking 5 billion a year from pensions, changes to the basic rate of tax mean you are paying more. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3761255.stm shows the tax burden is getting greater.
As for Tory sleaze, yes there was but it was normally on a personal level, they were caught with their pants down, this lot are far worse when it comes to sleaze, this is sleaze on a professional level.
A good thread. Just to pose a question, as a lot of this is focused on Iraq:
Let us just say (hypothetically of course) that we did invade Iraq for oil.
What would be wrong with that? Some here will remember the oil crisis. Oil is the driving factor behind all the major Western economies, without it we beconme totally destabilised. Can we risk that? I don't think so.
People seem to think:
A) We did not invade for oil (ok then.... like we had any WMD evidence, so why DID we invade?) . These tend to be our right-wingers, and they vehmently deny oil has anything to do with it all.
B) We went in for oil, and that is a terrible thing to do. (these tend to be the 'Left Wing')
But how about C) We did go in for oil, as it is essential for our economy (and we ARE the good guys in the world!) AND THAT IS A GOOD THING!
It seem people in cat A+B just don't appreciate/understand Global Economics.
What is that supposed to mean?
Read it in a chavvy accent and you might find out. ;)
Can I make a shot in the dark here and I don't mean to offend, have you travelled a lot?
Why would that offend? No I haven't travelled a lot. Only been to one other continent apart from europe. But compared to someone who has never left his/her home town, yeah I have travelled a fair bit.
Curious as to why your asking though.
A good thread. Just to pose a question, as a lot of this is focused on Iraq:
Let us just say (hypothetically of course) that we did invade Iraq for oil.
No we didn't, It was the issue of WMD, with oil playing a minor part.
What would be wrong with that? Some here will remember the oil crisis. Oil is the driving factor behind all the major Western economies, without it we beconme totally destabilised. Can we risk that? I don't think so.
Interesting idea, but like someone said here there are alternatives, nuclear for example.
People seem to think:
A) We did not invade for oil (ok then.... like we had any WMD evidence, so why DID we invade?) . These tend to be our right-wingers, and they vehmently deny oil has anything to do with it all.
I believe it played a part, but was not the main reason.
B) We went in for oil, and that is a terrible thing to do. (these tend to be the 'Left Wing')
It would be terrible if we mainly went in for control of the oil revenue, but we didnt.
But how about C) We did go in for oil, as it is essential for our economy (and we ARE the good guys in the world!) AND THAT IS A GOOD THING!
So its a good thing to be completely selfish on a national level and pee bullets and bombs over other countries just becuase they have something that is useful to us? I dont think so.
It seem people in cat A+B just don't appreciate/understand Global Economics.
Global Economics? Talk to me about that. You think the world goes round on money only? You are mistaken in my opinion.
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