Hybrid Experiences

Hi guys,who is running Hybrids and is it really worth doing?

My supra is a J-Spec bpu, already have 650 injectors going for greddy e manage and Envy Hybrids am i doing the right thing?

No you are not doing the right thing if your current turbos are ok.

Waste of money and Ive been down that route...

So there's not much difference Darren or are they more laggy and not much power increase.

Hi mate,

One of the guys at the Surrey RR session last week got really good results with hybrids: http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=122315

Grahamc

I believe Ian C always said his were a really good half-way house between stock twin turbos (BPU) and single

J

Im running hybrids on my soop and when its running proper it runs really well, much better than before on stocks IMO.

Go for it mate!

Like Darren, I wouldn't do it.

If you've blown you stock turbos I would either get some more j-spec ceramics or, funds allowing, go small single.

Replacing good stockers for hybrids/UK turbos is not a good upgrade plan in my opinion.

You've got to hope the ceramic blades are ok though Jake, if they are fooked, so are you.

food for thought there nige!

why dont you have a word with brian (TDR)

he has just won the ssc at crail on stock twins:cool:

they cant be all that bad then

alex

You've got to hope the ceramic blades are ok though Jake

True, but I don't believe the bad rep ceramics get from some people. UKs are just as likely to fail if over-boosted and both are very reliable at stock boost levels. I've seen/heard of many recently fitted hybrids failing though.

True, but I don't believe the bad rep ceramics get from some people. UKs are just as likely to fail if over-boosted and both are very reliable at stock boost levels. I've seen/heard of many recently fitted hybrids failing though.

Oh I agree mate, but the problem is that I'm unaware of anyone in this country who could rebuild/replace ceramic wheels.

I've got a spare set of j-specs in the garage, I'm sure out of 4 wheels I could make a pair if it ever comes to it.

It's not a cost effective upgrade. You trade responsiveness for perhaps a little more power. I say perhaps because not all hybrids are created equal.... some just seem to be laggier with no real gain in power. If you want hybrids I'd be asking Justin where his came from as that's a proven set (real world measured performance proven!) running 11's at the top of the stock / stock based twins drag leaderboard with what he says is 520bhp, he mentioned 1.7bar boost at ten of the best.

As mentioned, I'm still on the stock ceramics and also run 11's with 1.1bar boost - I make my power via my ECU mapping.

If you want something that's truly an upgrade, I'd be saving to go single.

Cheers,

Brian.

I'm unaware of anyone in this country who could rebuild/replace ceramic wheels.

I think you're right, there isn't a way to repair/recon ceramics. Replacement with new (expensive) or used (risky) are the only options if you want to keep the faster spool and extra torque you get with the ceramics.

Still, as long as people keep crashing TTs or going single we should have a supply of used ceramics. I guess it's better than nothing.

I dread to think how much a Toyota dealer would charge for a drive-in drive out for a pair of j-specs.

I remember Nic bought a set brand new for his car from Toyota a few years back - might be worth asking him the cost. He had his usual garage in HK fit them though, not Toyota.

Cheers,

Brian.

It's not a cost effective upgrade. You trade responsiveness for perhaps a little more power. I say perhaps because not all hybrids are created equal.... some just seem to be laggier with no real gain in power.

If you want hybrids I'd be asking Justin where his came from as that's a proven set (real world measured performance proven!) running 11's at the top of the stock / stock based twins drag leaderboard with what he says is 520bhp, he mentioned 1.7bar boost at ten of the best.

Excuse my ignorance Brian but is your car a manual or auto?

I know Justin has a hi-stall TC in his auto and I'm convinced it's that part, not the hybrids, which makes the biggest difference in drag racing a Supe.

I'm sure you remember MonkeyMark slashing his ¼ time just by fitted a hi-stall. He was in the elevens with an auto and hi-stall and that was with stock injectors, stock ECU and not even a boost controller.

So there's not much difference Darren or are they more laggy and not much power increase.

For the costs involved the benefits are not worth it go get a small single kit from Envy

My car was running facelift ceramics and was spot on I wanted more power so went hybrid, 550s and SAFC. The first set of hybrids then failed at 1500 miles.

The second set have been great but feel more top endy if that makes sense? Probably due to steel internals and bigger compressor wheels...

I need to get mine on the RR and see what its actually doing just couldn't make the 25/8

Who made both of your sets?

Who made both of your sets?

JPS Motorsport (Leon) supplied and fitted them.

I remember Nic bought a set brand new for his car from Toyota a few years back - might be worth asking him the cost. He had his usual garage in HK fit them though, not Toyota.

Correct when my first set of J-spec turbos went (blown 2 sets now!), I replaced with brand new OEM turbos. Not a cheap exercise as they are around £900 each

I had them on my first Soop - with 550's and S-AFC

Forced on me when stockers blew on the Thor RR (still remember the sound and the bits of ceramic flying out the exhaust! Gutted!)

These were done by the same people as JPS got them from - increased wheel size (by about 5mm I seem to remember and enlarged wastegate hole and new button)

Same spec as ASH had on his

Laggier - but just over UK spec ()

Second turbo came on stronger and higher top end - but then you can get the EGT temps higher too - so a trade off

If it happened again (stockers blow that is) I would go with a small single - but only with the right bits and an AEM / Motec / Autronic ECU - and these cost a lot to do right - AND cos it's not my daily driver and I can afford to have it off the road when niggly things happen (and they will with a single!)

I would not get second hand stockers - just same labour charge to fit these as a single etc and wjy take the chance?

Just my 2p's worth...

Hi mate,

 

One of the guys at the Surrey RR session last week got really good results with hybrids: http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=122315

Grahamc

 

I believe Ian C always said his were a really good half-way house between stock twin turbos (BPU) and single

 

J

That would be me!! And yes the hybrids did well. However you can plainly see on the dyno sheet that they are the limitation right now.

Like Darren, I wouldn't do it.

If you've blown you stock turbos I would either get some more j-spec ceramics or, funds allowing, go small single.

Replacing good stockers for hybrids/UK turbos is not a good upgrade plan in my opinion.

I went for hybrids because the jspec twins were destroyed and got the hybrids for a good price. I also could not afford a single conversion at the time as the engine was being built. Insurance would also have killed me.

It's not a cost effective upgrade. You trade responsiveness for perhaps a little more power. I say perhaps because not all hybrids are created equal.... some just seem to be laggier with no real gain in power. If you want hybrids I'd be asking Justin where his came from as that's a proven set (real world measured performance proven!) running 11's at the top of the stock / stock based twins drag leaderboard with what he says is 520bhp, he mentioned 1.7bar boost at ten of the best.

 

As mentioned, I'm still on the stock ceramics and also run 11's with 1.1bar boost - I make my power via my ECU mapping.

 

If you want something that's truly an upgrade, I'd be saving to go single.

 

Cheers,

 

Brian.

It was cost effective for me, as I only paid £300 for te set of UK hybrids with the down pipe and all other items needed.

I think that was pretty cost effective to get me up to 450bhp on SRR.

However, when these turbos die (and they will die, I will make sure of that - did RyanG say anti lag on hybrids? ) I will be going single, and I am currently looking at the GT35R single.

So in summary, if your turbos are fine, leave them, and continue with the other things to completely prep your car for single conversion. FMIC, cams, full fueling, standalone ecu, suspension, brakes, wheels, driver training, etc.

I dont understand the current hostility towards hybrids to be honest...answer me a question, what was the bread and butter before all these single upgrades come onto the market....hybrids right? Make no mistake about it, most find it hard when traders push there single conversions at people so hard and bad mouth the hybrids its easy to shun them to one side in favour of the single, after all whats going to make them more money in the long run a nice 3-4k single kit or a £1500 set of hybrids.....Hmmm I know which one I would chose to market

My take is, if you get a well made set from a respected company and use supporting mods, ie cams, water injection, proper cooling, fuelling etc etc there is no reason why they wont be good?? I personally would'nt worry with a high stall either, the lag I doubt would be no more noticible that a pair of UK turbos

The people that have bad mouthed them in this thread, how many of you have first hand experience with them?

without fail a single is going to be stronger in all areas for 500bhp + figure as hybrids will get no where near that figure reliably, however for a true 400ish bhp with the sequential system still in place there worth looking into

 

520bhp? That would be a UK record on stock based turbos, wouldn't it?

 

Excuse my ignorance Brian but is your car a manual or auto?

I know Justin has a hi-stall TC in his auto and I'm convinced it's that part, not the hybrids, which makes the biggest difference in drag racing a Supe.

I'm sure you remember MonkeyMark slashing his ¼ time just by fitted a hi-stall. He was in the elevens with an auto and hi-stall and that was with stock injectors, stock ECU and not even a boost controller.

I'm auto as well, also with hi stall. Again I have stock injectors a stock ECU (with piggyback) and use a restrictor ring to keep boost at 1.1bar max. Monkeymark also has a set of HKS cams and a FMIC but I think that was it for his spec (over the stuff you mentioned) as far as I remember, other than him having as light as possible a Supra as standard (no electrics etc).

The difference between the 3 cars and the times ran, moreover the real story is in the terminal speeds:

- Justin regularly hits 119MPH and 120MPH terminals when he ups the boost with his hybrids

- His best time was run at Elvington with an average 60ft

- Monkey achieved his time with a low 60ft and 114MPH terminal at Santa Pod

- Without my ECU mapping, my terminals are also around 114MPH

- With, I've managed 121MPH

- I also ran my best time at Elvington with a very average 60ft and again a very similar time at Crail on a poor surface with a 120MPH terminal

To make the best of everything, I need to get down to Santa Pod on a day the track is prep'd to get a nice low 60ft. The rule of thumb the Americans follow is anything saved in the 60ft timewise is multiplied 3 fold over the 1/4 because of the transient effect of that good launch.

Cheers,

Brian.

I dont understand the current hostility towards hybrids to be honest...answer me a question, what was the bread and butter before all these single upgrades come onto the market....hybrids right? Make no mistake about it, most find it hard when traders push there single conversions at people so hard and bad mouth the hybrids its easy to shun them to one side in favour of the single, after all whats going to make them more money in the long run a nice 3-4k single kit or a £1500 set of hybrids.....Hmmm I know which one I would chose to market

 

My take is, if you get a well made set from a respected company and use supporting mods, ie cams, water injection, proper cooling etc etc there is no reason why they wont be good??

 

The people that have bad mouthed them in this thread, how many of you have first hand experience with them?

 

without fail a single is going to be stronger in all areas for 500bhp + figure as hybrids will get no where near that figure reliably, however for a true 400ish bhp with the sequential system still in place there worth looking into

Power figures really don't mean a lot to me. If you wanna talk power let's see your drag terminal speeds - that's the only true indicator to me. RE: supporting mods, who's to say a car still on cermics with those same supporting mods won't be every bit as fast / powerful? That's the argument surrounding them being cost effective, especially considering labour costs. It's cheaper labour wise to fit a single after taking the twins off as there's much less to it than refitting a set of twins, hybrid or otherwise.

Cheers,

Brian.

Power figures really don't mean a lot to me. If you wanna talk power let's see your drag terminal speeds - that's the only true indicator to me. RE: supporting mods, who's to say a car still on cermics with those same supporting mods won't be every bit as fast / powerful? That's the argument surrounding them being cost effective, especially considering labour costs. It's cheaper labour wise to fit a single after taking the twins off as there's much less to it than refitting a set of twins, hybrid or otherwise.

 

Cheers,

 

Brian.

I was mearly commenting on the hostility towards hybrids + Nige might not be a track warrior either, cost wise there is no comparison in my opinion, single will cost you 10k easily over a few years I personally would not believe people that say otherwise, hybrids will put you no where near that figure over the same time period (setup wise), thats providing both cars stay healthy as well. I agree labour to refit the twins is a lot but in the long run a single will always be more that any hybrid setup if its done correctly, ie not cutting corners which is how it should be done every time in my opinion

Hybrids will always out do ceramics power wise as you can push them that little bit harder Graham C results show this, obviously a trade off for slightly laggier setup