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The mkiv Supra Owners Club

Piggyback vs Standalone debate


mikeyb10supra
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In light of a few mapping issues being highlighted of late, I was wondering what people personal views are re piggyback (greddy, hks ets) vs standalone (AEM, Motec, Link) im sort of leaning more towards the e-manage ultimate just for keeping a small single running perfectly.

 

From experience what are peoples views, I basically want my single once setup running perfectly on cold starts, after a spirited run and on idle, I have heard of a few issues with the AEM so thinking more emanage at the mo + for cost efficiency

 

Any views and positives of the standalone vs the piggyback welcome

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Being one of the few LINK ecu owners, I am happy with it. But I have no comparison to the piggybacks. Pete (THOR) is busy sorting out my cold start and idle issue now. The non-start issue had nothing to do with the ECU or mapping.

 

EDIT - once car is running, and diff and suspension is done, will look at getting the launch control done. :D

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The problem with piggybacks is that they are constantly fighting the stock map. With a good stand-alone you're starting anew. If you can get the stand-alone mapped right it will be better than a piggyback - but getting it to that stage is not cheap. Neither is buying a good standalone.

 

I have the Motec M600 but the ECU and associated sensors etc will cost you over 2k just for the hardware.

It's not a cheap game this.

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I was wondering what people personal views are re piggyback (greddy, hks ets) vs standalone (AEM, Motec, Link) im sort of leaning more towards the e-manage ultimate just for keeping a small single running perfectly.

 

HKS F-con V Pro is standalone.

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What was the deal with the VVT-i now? Are there any new things out to help with this or is it still piggyback or HKS F-CON Pro/MOTEC M600 the only options?

 

From what I looked at before the MOTEC was better as it was not locked and easier to get people to tune.

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Apexi Power FC is a nice compromise between the two I think, It's a standalone that's easy to tune as piggbacks and not as complicated as the AEM.

 

Obviously, the AEM is in another league and when mapped correctly can hold it's own.

 

If you want to manage a small/Medium single on a smaller budget the propper way then the FC would be the one to go for IMHO.

 

 

Trouble is they stopped making them.

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Horses for courses, if you want to run big single/big power with a built engine, no contest sand alone every time, but if you just want to run a small single on std engine or tweak for better running or hybrids then piggy back is the best compromise,

Jake i disagree that piggy backs just fight the std ECU, they don't! they just change the signal, there is no fighting involved, all the alterations are done before the ECU sees the signal so it just does what you would expect from the given signal, the only time you may get some fighting as you put it, is when you try to change the closed loop running, and TBO why would you want to in the applications i have mentioned.

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I am running a standalone on my car, standard engine, hybrids, cams, fueling.

 

The piggybacks just "fudge" info/data, where as the standalones, are mapped completely for what you want. But they do have to be mapped properly.

 

I will be getting RyanG (at some point) to fine tune my map and see what extra is there, but this will be after the SRR day, so that I have something to compare it to. As well as the launch control, later...

 

EDIT: a question... You have the same car, same mods, ie. standard engine, single turbo gt35r, fmic, fueling (680cc), fuel pump, cams (264), etc. If it is mapped on a piggyback and a standalone, which would be better?? Has anyone done this??

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Jake i disagree that piggy backs just fight the std ECU, they don't! they just change the signal, there is no fighting involved, all the alterations are done before the ECU sees the signal so it just does what you would expect from the given signal, the only time you may get some fighting as you put it, is when you try to change the closed loop running
The map for the sequential system is very different to what you'd want for a single. Mapping a piggyback around the area where the stock second turbo comes on-line to make it suit a single turbo is what I was referring to.
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Personally I think it all comes down to 2 things.

Budget and finding someone who can map what you want.

If you have the budget, and can find someone who can map the standalone ECU then personally I would take the standalone over the piggy back.

Really the main problem is down to budget. If you have a big enough budget then you can always find someone who is good enough to map the car.

Personally (and not necessarily what I've done in the past) I would subscribe to Chris Wilsons phillosophy of finding a quality engine mapper, and then go with whatever they can map.

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I personally wouldn't use a piggyback with a VVTi system. The more advanced ECU constantly tried to pull itself back to the stock map, and the more I adjusted the EMU the more it pulled back till I did a reset of the stock ECU and it all started again.

 

From my POV, standalone is the only way to go, as it is blank, and you aren't fighting against a) the unknown map of the stock ECU b) the setup of a stock ECU expecting twins...

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