more power but subtle not radical , TT auto

[Vantage]

Yes, this post is technical - before it gets moved!!!!

1.I want to keep appearance of my stock fl Jspec tt auto
2.it needs to remain reliable (1000 miles a week)

0 - 50 ish fine, 50 - 85 ish is area would like to improve, 85 - to I am scared fine

What modifications can be done , that will give me more power , looking for best % increase v £ spent.

The standard exhaust will have to be replaced soon, so thought this was best time to do something induction/exhaust related, however want to keep rear pipe (that you can see) as near to standard appearance as possible

Many thanks for any suggestions (constructive) you may have

James

[Class One]

Is your car completely stock at present?

[michael]

BPU is your friend :)

(And a good service to make sure everything is 100% first)

[Alex]

Take out 1 cat. (The one nearest the turbos)
Fit a 2Row FMIC in the stock bumper.
End.

This will give you better yet safe power and no MOT issue's.

[Vantage]

completely standard car

[Class One]

As above really as Alex suggested. You'll get an extra bit of boost and won't compromise your reliability. Fitting either a new smic or a 2 row fmic won't harm it either and will be reasonably wallet friendly. Don't bother fitting a fcd if you don't want to go over 1bar of boost, and you might want to replace your fuel pump with an uprated walbro one if funds allow. No need to go the full bpu route, but you will be teetering at the top of the slippery slope. :)

[Whitesupraboy2]

James after speaking with you I know you want the stock look.... so...

Regarding the intercooler your getting to replace your Stock the Chris Wilson or Miami GT one will both be fine for BPU power increase and will keep the stock look.

I would do what Alex has said just remove the first cat and fit a decat pipe and see if the car feels better for you. This isnt full BPU but will improve response and increase the power. Also as Alex said MOT time you can just put it through.

A Chris wilson Decat pipe is about £150 I thinkand of course he can fit it when you have the intercooler if its his you went for.

Regarding an exhaust system that looks stock, I dont know of any but someone may. Do you want it loud or as quiet as possible or maybe a bit more of a engine noise? either way your looking from about £300 - £700 depending on what is best for you.

Later on to go full BPU you would need;

Second decat pipe about £150
Restrictor ring to keep boost down £30
Reliability wise an upgraded fuel pump £80ish
Fuel Cut defender £80

and thats it, with all the above the car will still look stock.

[Chris Wilson]

James after speaking with you I know you want the stock look.... so...

Regarding the intercooler your getting to replace your Stock the Chris Wilson or Miami GT one will both be fine for BPU power increase and will keep the stock look.

I would do what Alex has said just remove the first cat and fit a decat pipe and see if the car feels better for you. This isnt full BPU but will improve response and increase the power. Also as Alex said MOT time you can just put it through.

A Chris wilson Decat pipe is about £150 I thinkand of course he can fit it when you have the intercooler if its his you went for.

Regarding an exhaust system that looks stock, I dont know of any but someone may. Do you want it loud or as quiet as possible or maybe a bit more of a engine noise? either way your looking from about £300 - £700 depending on what is best for you.

Later on to go full BPU you would need;

Second decat pipe about £150
Restrictor ring to keep boost down £30
Reliability wise an upgraded fuel pump £80ish
Fuel Cut defender £80

and thats it, with all the above the car will still look stock.

Colder grade plugs, too. Water injection would be nice, make sure the intercooler is in perfect nick. It's amazing how much a full de cat and decent free flowing exhaust makes to the mid range torque and turbo spool up. Stick with jap spec turbos, as soon as you lose those ceramic internals you get a lot more lag.

[Muffleman]

Stick with jap spec turbos, as soon as you lose those ceramic internals you get a lot more lag.

And Chris Wilson joins the Uk vs JDM debate with a sucker punch to the lardy UKs :D

Only teasing ;)

[Chris Wilson]

I was thinking more of him being tempted by "hybrid" turbos actually, there is no debate re UK and J-Spec cars, it's black and white ;)

[Muffleman]

:d

[Vantage]

Colder grade plugs, too. Water injection would be nice, make sure the intercooler is in perfect nick. It's amazing how much a full de cat and decent free flowing exhaust makes to the mid range torque and turbo spool up. Stick with jap spec turbos, as soon as you lose those ceramic internals you get a lot more lag.


Chris, water injection , do you mean the injection system that injects water into intake or the cooling system for intercooler?

James thanks for advice , after answer to above from Chris, will arrange things accordingly with Chris

[Alex]

WI goes into the intake plenum, by the throttle body.

[Vantage]

so need the following done;
WI ,
have front cat removed (presumably can retain rest of standard exhaust)
new intercooler

[Tricky-Ricky]

Don't see the point in changing IC as the std one in good nic is perfectly adequate, same goes for WI if your only going to decat and run 1-1.1 bar its not exactly pushing the power envelope, it would only be as a det fail safe, which is unlikely, WI only comes into its own when you are running close or over 12.0 AFRs on full boost, and have the timing on the more ambitious side;)
you won't see any power increase from it otherwise.
I would just go for full decat, RR and colder plugs.

[Chris Wilson]

Agreed, if your I/C is in good order no need to change it, but i still advocate WI on all and any turbo engine, maybe time i posted my WI bumph again:

Water injection serves 2 closely related functions on a turbo engined
car. Firstly it cools the charge air temperature by utilising an effect
known as the latent heat of evaporation. This property can be self
demonstrated very easily. If you pour something that evaporates quickly
like petrol on your hand it feels very cold. This is the rapidly
vaporising spirit removing heat from your skin and bloodstream by the
aforementioned process. By spraying a very finely atomised mist of water
into the inlet of a turbo engine when under boost conditions the
evaporation of the water into steam causes a temperature reduction in the air and
fuel intake charge. A cold charge is less likely to be subject to
detonation than a hot charge. A cool charge is also denser, able to
carry more air and fuel mix per unit of volume. These 2 properties of
water injection allow either less chance of detonation at a given boost,
maybe allowing lower octane fuel to be used, or to allow a rise in boost
pressure usage without detonation. These are very desirable goals for
any modifier of a turbo engine, or one using an engine mapped to run
on a higher octane fuel than generally available in the UK. Japanese
import turbo cars for example.

People ask whether squirting water into an engine causes corrosion. In
fact this is not a problem, the combustion temperatures under boost
ensure the water is turned instantly to steam and is ejected out of the
exhaust. The water mist is injected only when high boost is sensed via
a supplied pressure sensor switch. The basic combustion process of
hydrocarbon fuels causes LOTS of water to be generated anyway, which is why cars
not driven on regular long journeys will rust out a mild steel exhaust
system from the INSIDE out. If water is added in the correct volume, via
the supplied, calibrated jets, this is not a problem.

Even when used alongside a larger or more efficient intercooler, or
indeed when an intercooler is used in an application where one was not
present as standard, water injection can and does increase charge cooling
still further. Water can be stored either in the existing windscreen
washer bottle or in a separate, dedicated, container. In cold conditions
it is essential to add an anti freeze additive to the water to stop pump
damage through freezing. Windscreen washer additive serves this purpose
fine and the engine won't mind ingesting this solution at all. Or you
can add neat methanol, which is usually the anti freeze additive in
washer fluid anyway. Using a 50 / 50 percent by volume water / methanol
mix will actually help increase the octane of the intake charge, as an
added benefit. As a yet further advantage the latent heat of evaporation
of methanol is extremely high. A win / win situation. It is not however
obligatory to use methanol as an additive. All components of the water
injection kit that are in contact with the fluid are stainless steel or
able to tolerate water and methanol or screen washer additive without
degradation. A properly set up system does not use a vast amount of
water, in fact a modern car sized screen washer bottle used also for the
water injection reservoir will suffice admirably. A water filter is
included to keep any sludge out of the pump or jet. This should be
checked regularly for contamination and blown out if residue is
apparent within.

A more technical explanation:

Let us take a quick look at ignition. Those who have a Heywood can look it up
- mines on loan so going by memory. The first thing that happens is a plasma
cloud is formed by the arc consisting of super heated electron stripped atoms.
When this cloud "explodes" a ball of high energy particles is shot outward.

The highest energy particles are the hydrogen atoms - and they penetrate the
charge about 5 times as far as the rest of the particles. As they lose energy
and return to normal temps - about 5000 k - they begin to react chemically
with any surrounding fuel and oxygen particles. The effectiveness of spark
ignition is directly related to the availability of free hydrogen. Molecules
containing tightly bound hydrogen such as methanol, nitromethane, and methane
are far more difficult to ignite than those with less bonds.

During combustion - water - H2O ( present and formed ) is extremely active in
the oxidation of the hydrocarbon. The predominate reaction is the following:

OH + H ==> H2O
H2O + O ==> H2O2
H2O2 ==> OH + OH
Loop to top and repeat.

The OH radical is the most effective at stripping hydrogen from the HC
molecule in most ranges of combustion temperature.

Another predominate process is the HOO radical. It is more active at lower
temperatures and is competitive with the H2O2 at higher temps.

OO + H ==> HOO
HOO + H ==> H2O2
H2O2 ==> OH + OH

This mechanism is very active at both stripping hydrogen from the HC and for
getting O2 into usable combustion reactions.

Next consider the combustion of CO. Virtually no C ==> CO2. Its a two step
process. C+O ==> CO. CO virtually drops out of early mid combustion as the O
H reactions are significantly faster and effectively compete for the available
oxygen.

Then consider that pure CO and pure O2 burns very slowly if at all. Virtually
the only mechanism to complete the oxidization ( Glassman - Combustion Third
Edition ) of CO ==> CO2 is the "water method".

CO + OH ==> CO2 + H
H + OH ==> H20
H2O + O ==> H2O2
H2O2 ==> OH + OH
goto to top and repeat.

This simple reaction accounts for 99% + of the conversion of CO to CO2. It is
important in that fully two thirds of the energy of carbon combustion is
released in the CO ==> CO2 process and that this process occurs slow and late
in the combustion of the fuel. Excess water can and does speed this
conversion - by actively entering into the conversion process thru the above
mechanism.

The peak flame temperature is determined by three factors alone - the energy
present and released, the total atomic mass, and the atomic ratio - commonly
called CHON for Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, and Nitrogen. The chemical
reactions in combustion leading to peak temperature are supremely indifferent
to pressure. The temperatures and rates of normal IC combustion are
sufficient to cause most of the fuel and water present to be dissociated and
enter into the flame.

As can be seen above, water is most definitily not only not inert but is a
very active and important player in the combustion of hydrocarbon fuel.
Ricardo and others have documented that under certain conditions ( normally
supercharged ) water can replace fuel up to about 50% and develop the same
power output, or that the power output can be increased by up to 50% addition
of water. This conditions were investigated by NACA and others for piston
aircraft engines. It is important to note that these improvements came at the
upper end of the power range where sufficient fuel and air was available to
have an excess of energy that could not be converted to usable pressure in a
timely manner.

As a side note - Volvo recently released some SAE papers documenting the use
of cooled EGR to both reduce detonation and return to a stoic mixture under
boost in the 15 psi range - while maintaining approximately the same power
output. Notice - they reduced fuel and still get the same power output.

When you consider that EGR consists primarily of nitrogen, CO2, and water ( to
the tune of about two gallons formed from each gallon of water burned ), you
might draw the conclusion that it also was not "inert". They peaked their
tests at about 18% cooled EGR - which would work out to about 36% water
injection and got about the same results under similar conditions that the
early NACA research got.

[BASHTHEBISHOP]

F*** me Chris that is some explanation. :)

Bet you cant put a fruit pastille in your mouth without chewing it though:d

Top post!

[Tricky-Ricky]

Still say its overkill on near std or BPU engine, unless you can actually make use of its full benefits;)
but i do agree that its useful for det suppression. must admit i haven't seen big drops in EGTs with the Supra, bloody things run to dam hot! maybe time for an even bigger jet or direct port injection;) but i did notice a fair drop on my old S14 Silvia:)
lots of theory and practise info here,
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2/

[michael]

*Senses Chris has stock of WI kits*

;)

[RedM]

I wanna go BPU! :(

[Chris Wilson]

The latter part is from someone far more clued up on thermodynamics than myself :) Allegedly...

[Class One]

The latter part is from someone far more clued up on thermodynamics than myself :) Allegedly...

Digsy? ;)

[Chris Wilson]

Nope, just got in from the pub, I'll give proper accredition tomorrow :)