View Full Version : Sixth Sigma & Lean improvement projects
Is there anyone else here that's green or black belt sixth sigma and participated in Lean improvement cycles? I've got some challenging projects coming up in the next few months so just wondered if there was anyone here who has experience in either? I'm green belt sixth sigma and currently working on a black belt project, but also have to incorporate Lean improvement cycles into several projects.
I'm confident with both but am interested if there is anyone else here who has experience of either.
If you don't know what this is about then it's best not to reply to this thread :D
http://finance.isixsigma.com/library/content/c051005a.asp
RobSheffield
25-06-07, 01:13
You can get belts in it?!
:rlol:
http://finance.isixsigma.com/library/content/c051005a.asp
I see google did you well :D
Actually you were one of the people I was expecting to reply as I know this is in your field, come forth Imi, lets discuss :)
You can get belts in it?!
NMM :D
RobSheffield
25-06-07, 01:34
I would ask what NMM means, but as you have a green belt in 'stuff' im going to back away slowly :blink:
I really wouldnt want you to have to Start using a Lean improvement cycle anywhere near me ;)
I would ask what NMM means, but as you have a green belt in 'stuff' im going to back away slowly :blink:
I really wouldnt want you to have to Start using a Lean improvement cycle anywhere near me ;)
Okay, I won't tell you what it means, but as requested : If you don't know what this is about then it's best not to reply to this thread :D
There are quite a few people on the forum who are aware of sixth sigma so I can afford wait quite a few days for some replies ;)
Young Mr Rob, if you want to make yourself known in the IT world, sixth sigma is the latest coporate fad ;) Lean management is the next one coming.
dangerous brain
25-06-07, 05:57
IT has gone ninja? WTF
Pixels on, pixels off
Crouching monitor hidden keyboard
Nooooooo I have just nipped on here before I go to work and all I see is work related stuff. ;)
You can't get away from all this now, the same happened on my lunch break last week, someone was talking about this too.
Anyway I can't talk about it as CI (Can't remember if it's Continually Interfering or Continuous Improvement :eyebrows:) is part of a pay negotiation that we're in dispute about.
Dragonball
25-06-07, 07:53
Anyway I can't talk about it as CI (Can't remember if it's Continually Interfering or Continuous Improvement :eyebrows:) is part of a pay negotiation that we're in dispute about.
Cant beat a nice bit of Kaisan :)
We practise Kaizen where I work, I was trained to gren belt a few years ago, but changed jobs so don't really get too many chances to implement my skills.
Who's your sensei? I want to learn it!!
IT has gone ninja? WTF
Pixels on, pixels off
Crouching monitor hidden keyboard
Now that was funny, IT humour.... must be honest I've not heard of it either..
My Mum's a green belt in it and they've got a huge push on it at work... It's true that they actually have 'Dan' meetings and so on...
The thing that worries me is that there are a whole host of people out there making big money making this stuff up. And everyone buys into it. :blink:
The thing that worries me is that there are a whole host of people out there making big money making this stuff up. And everyone buys into it. :blink:
Well, Toyota certainly made a lot of money from it - after all, Lean Manufacturing is what use to be called the Toyota Manufacturing system. Kaisan, Poke-Yoke, Kanban, etc etc are all just parts of a whole manufacturing / engineering philosophy. Ever wondered why they all had Japanses names? ;)
The biggest problem with making it work in the West IMHO is that no-one wants to believe in it. No-one wants to admit that they are part of a non value-added process (Western business is more full of non value-added processes than ever before). No one wants to be the worker that stops the production line because of a quality issue. Western workers by anf large just want to do their job, take their paycheck and go home. The Japanese, on the other hand, live eat sleep and breath their work, and the company's success is their own success.
Ironically, Toyota's manufacturing system has its roots in the success of American heavy industry during WW2, which underlines how important it is to have a common goal and focus in the workforce right from the MD down to the peorson who cleans the floors at night. The Americans could make it work back then because they knew exactly what they were working for, and that it may very well have an effect on them personally.
All too often these days, however, you'll get some tawt management consultant coming round pedalling a lean solution out of the box, and then give it to some poor sod to implement, which will more than often be doomed to failure because no-one else will be interested. People need to want to do it and understand how it can be of benefit.
Yes - one UMich trained greenbelt, here.
I try to avoid it where possible, though ;)
Well, Toyota certainly made a lot of money from it - after all, Lean Manufacturing is what use to be called the Toyota Manufacturing system. Kaisan, Poke-Yoke, Kanban, etc etc are all just parts of a whole manufacturing / engineering philosophy. Ever wondered why they all had Japanses names? ;)
The biggest problem with making it work in the West IMHO is that no-one wants to believe in it. No-one wants to admit that they are part of a non value-added process (Western business is more full of non value-added processes than ever before). No one wants to be the worker that stops the production line because of a quality issue. Western workers by anf large just want to do their job, take their paycheck and go home. The Japanese, on the other hand, live eat sleep and breath their work, and the company's success is their own success.
Ironically, Toyota's manufacturing system has its roots in the success of American heavy industry during WW2, which underlines how important it is to have a common goal and focus in the workforce right from the MD down to the peorson who cleans the floors at night. The Americans could make it work back then because they knew exactly what they were working for, and that it may very well have an effect on them personally.
It's not the ethos per say that I'm decrying Digsy. It's the fact that people are building it up as the new big thing and loads of management consultant firms will be making their fortune on the back of it.
I had a huge argument with a cousin of mine a few years ago because he was one of these consultants. Didn't actually DO anything for a living, just relied on other people paying him to talk sense to them. He tried to sell to me and I just wasn't having it.
All too often these days, however, you'll get some tawt management consultant coming round pedalling a lean solution out of the box, and then give it to some poor sod to implement, which will more than often be doomed to failure because no-one else will be interested. People need to want to do it and understand how it can be of benefit.
Exactly.
RobSheffield
25-06-07, 12:27
I had a huge argument with a cousin of mine a few years ago because he was one of these consultants. Didn't actually DO anything for a living, just relied on other people paying him to talk sense to them. He tried to sell to me and I just wasn't having it.
Very well said ;)
Sounds like a fancy way of saying 'work hard' to me :p
Dragonball
25-06-07, 12:29
Sixth Sigma / TQM / ISO / Balanced Scorecard / Empowerment / Investors... etc etc
All seem to find favour for a while and then fall out of grace... fundamentally (and IMHO) because they are never viewed (correctly) as representations of a care and quality philosophy... but as a quick 'back of the cigarette packet' fixes for fundamentally poor and untrained management...
:cool:
Very well said ;)
Sounds like a fancy way of saying 'work hard' to me :p
Work smarter, not harder ;)
Ivan, I wasn;t getting at you directly. Apologies if it came across that way. :)
My girlfriend is a production Manager for a capital equipment manufacture to the pharmaceutical industry and would dearly love to get involved with a company that really believes in a "lean" approach, and wants to impliment one properly. She went to an interview recently that purported to be just that but alas it was just some poor sod trying to go it alone again for a company that had heard all the buzzwords and thought it was a miracle solution.
I've got a book on Toyota's business methods that I'll have to read now just so I can have an opinion on this thread.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Toyota-Way-Management-Principles-Manufacturer/dp/0071392319/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/202-8156242-0781438?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182771190&sr=8-1
WTF are you on about? Is it some kind of Scientology Thetan crap?
WTF are you on about? Is it some kind of Scientology Thetan crap?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6_Sigma
Dragonball
25-06-07, 13:00
WTF are you on about? Is it some kind of Scientology Thetan crap?
That is easier to understand... :)
These are operational management systems that are utilised to cut costs (amongst other 'added value' inputs) through increased speed of production, and increased quality through monitoring systems etc
Lean production (made to order) is how Toyota (and subsequently Japanese manufacturing during the 80's) made it's mark - and then exported to the USA etc
Motorola developed their own S Sigma system
People like me are paid to talk said rubbish... :)
So it's bollocks management speak that really means nothing other than it being the latest buzz word then?
So it's bollocks management speak that really means nothing other than it being the latest buzz word then?
Congratulations you have now achieved Green Belt Status. :)
So it's bollocks management speak that really means nothing other than it being the latest buzz word then?
Its the basic operating philosoophy of the most profitable company in the world, which has been turned into bollocks management speak by people who try to sell it as an "out of the box" product rather than a philosphpy.
You can read all about (http://www.strategosinc.com/just_in_time.htm)it here.
Holy crap, i never thought that I would come across a discusion about Six Sigma on here. Im afraid I can't really help with the question, despite the fact that I have my greenbelt. It is / was one of many fads here at Caterpillar. I can actually see the benefits of using it within a production line or distribution centre, but I really think it fails when being used in certain office environments. It is so much easier to see benefits on the production line when there are obvious tangible benefits i.e. If I only use one of these instead of 2 then we can save X £'s per year.
Some of the projects that were going on here were just ridiculous, things were being made into projects for the sake of it and people were getting 3 or 4 people involved in things that they should of been doing in there jobs anyway.
It is kind of dying in CAT now, as far as I can see. Unfortunately though there is always a replacement... So now we all get to become ninja's in CPS :(
dangerous brain
25-06-07, 17:03
Oh that lean crap. The RAF tried that at several bases to find it fall flat on its arse. Funny really if you can't make lean work in the military where they already have a focussed aim how do you expect to make it work anywhere else in UK. Lets face it we all love a good skive in the UK :D
patrikbrunt
25-06-07, 17:14
wow I didnt realise you could get belts in this stuff, we had a big 5S drive at work a while ago... basically a big cleanup then just forget everything and go back to how it was. :d
Its the basic operating philosoophy of the most profitable company in the world, which has been turned into bollocks management speak by people who try to sell it as an "out of the box" product rather than a philosphpy.Sums it up nicely. :)
So it's bollocks management speak that really means nothing other than it being the latest buzz word then?
LOL :d I've been involved with it all over the years, Lean, TQM, S/sigma, Kaisan, loads of them. Different managers, different companies and it's normally implemented to gain brownie points for certain managers and to try get a company out of the sh*t.
In theory it will always work, as said it's common sense but it needs 100% from all the workforce and signs of it working to give it credibility, most managers will only nod and give it lip service so it's always failed in my experience.
If you have the sort of enthusiasm required in your workforce for it to work then you wouldn't need to implement it IMO;)
One thing I do have respect for is Kanban, simple yet effective. At my last job I had to implement it on a massive order for a hydraulics company and it worked really well. Again, discipline and the right attitude is needed or this will fail too.
Paul
:d:p
I work to Kaizen
well sort of - normally this just means "continous improvement"
"I tend to work to continuous f**k up!"
Get on with the job and throw away all this fairy speak:p
Rich
We have a team looking into this. They have invaded production but havent dared cross the design office threshhold yet, not since their initial foray which resulted in several injuries and a severe beating with a cardboard tube with nails in the end. Chanting Tamigochi / Kanban / Muda etc wont get them very far with us. Bunch of misguided tossers who think that moving the print machine ten inches closer to the print room door will increase our productivity 1000 %. We need more staff, not less...more time not less...more equipment, not less. Best way to improve productivity and profit at the moment is to ship the lot of these pen-pushing prima donnas out of our company and onto our competition.
A few recent enlightened suggestions from these eejits.
Build smaller boats.
Make each boat identical.
Make components for other (competition) boat companies.
My suggestion to them would be to rev up and fark right off.
We have a team looking into this. They have invaded production but havent dared cross the design office threshhold yet, not since their initial foray which resulted in several injuries and a severe beating with a cardboard tube with nails in the end. Chanting Tamigochi / Kanban / Muda etc wont get them very far with us. Bunch of misguided tossers who think that moving the print machine ten inches closer to the print room door will increase our productivity 1000 %. We need more staff, not less...more time not less...more equipment, not less. Best way to improve productivity and profit at the moment is to ship the lot of these pen-pushing prima donnas out of our company and onto our competition.
Ewen there is some truth in this;
I moved my desk 6 inches nearer the kettle and my workspeed went up 1000$ lol
Rich
Holy crap, i never thought that I would come across a discusion about Six Sigma on here. Im afraid I can't really help with the question, despite the fact that I have my greenbelt. It is / was one of many fads here at Caterpillar. I can actually see the benefits of using it within a production line or distribution centre, but I really think it fails when being used in certain office environments. It is so much easier to see benefits on the production line when there are obvious tangible benefits i.e. If I only use one of these instead of 2 then we can save X £'s per year.
I wasn't going to say anything but but that's kindof my opinion too. Applying what was a quality process for the manufacturing industry to the IT industry is slightly worrying lol but I guess it depends what part of the IT industry.
CMMI and methodologies like SCRUM I can understand, but 6sig for software development sounds weird. Maybe it works for general IT, like manufacturing pc's, but for development like software I'm less convinced, happy to be proved wrong though as if it works I'd take it up myself
Ewen there is some truth in this;
I moved my desk 6 inches nearer the kettle and my workspeed went up 1000$ lol
Rich
:dYup, and buying three kettles but only half filling each of them reduces the time wasted at coffee breaks by 200%.
Someone edited an e-mail from one of these guys and forwarded it to me. It suggested that as I was wasting time by opening the other half of the entrance gate instead of driving over the dragons teeth (one-way gate, these teeth scrape the underside of the Supe), I should buy a car with more ground clearance. I didnt see the joke and sent a rather nasty reply back to the poor guy. I am now his 'problem for August'.
Who's time is that on Ewen? Theirs or yours?
If it's theirs, fair enough.
If it's your own time, smack him with the cardboard tube again, but harder. :D
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