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The mkiv Supra Owners Club

Single Supra vs 996 Turbo : My Review


jevansio
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A couple of people were interested in my opinion of a comparison between the 2 cars, and as I got my Supe back last week and have had time to spend 600+ miles with it I thought I'd give it a shot.

 

My Supe is a fully built GT4088R which has been partially mapped to 0.8 BAR producing 470 bhp & 390 ft/lbs (I'll update this thread once I get it fully mapped to 1.6 BAR).

 

The 996 Turbo is standard 420 bhp & 420 ft/lbs (approx) @ 0.8 BAR. Mine is a tip-tronic which I'll use for most of the comparison. My mate has an exact same manual which we used for a side by side drag.

 

First the drag, we had them side by side in 3rd, Supe @ 2500 rpm, 996 @ 2100 rpm. After 3 beeps we both put our foot down, the Supe stuttered for an instant (mapping problem to sort out) then begin spooling the GT40, the 996 being pretty much lag free (and with a perfect map) lurched forward approx 3 cars lengths within seconds. But as soon as the GT40 was spooled, the Supe maintained it's deficit all the way to 6th gear (where we called it a day).

 

So in terms of straight line performance they are pretty much neck & neck. Both cars are exceptionally stable at high speed. The responsiveness of the 996 REALLY shows at low rpm, the way it could recover 400 rpms at those low revs was pretty impressive. Although the Supe was carrying more power the torque of the 996 seemed to make that up. It highlighted to me that peak bhp is no measure of which car is quicker. I was also very impressed though how the Supe giving 0.6 litres away could manage such similar performance to a £90k supercar.

 

Second handling. This isn't really a fair comparison as my Supe is running stock suspension & only uk fronts with stock pads, whereas the 996 has 4 pots all round, drilled discs & a trick 4wd system. So I'll just try and explain how the 996 differs from my Supe (you all probably know how a stock Supe handles & brakes anyway).

 

Imagine driving a 470 bhp rwd Supe, although the handling is great, corners need to be tret with respect, you always need to be aware of the back end especially exiting corners where you're starting to apply power again. My suspension also feels stable, but a little wallowy around corners. The 996 however feels extremely planted, it gives much more feedback through the steering, as soon as you turn the steering wheel the car is changing direction (very Evo like), power can be applied much earlier & the chassis provides immense grip (even before the 4wd system kicks in transferring power to help you out - it will even apply power for you unlike Evos).

 

Again on bumpy b-roads the 996 is firm and never grounds, the Supe with it's 4" exhaust & soft suspension catches when travelling at any speed and would get left for dead.

 

Braking wise both cars are exceptionally stable under heavy braking, Supe will benefit greatly from new disks & pads though. The 996 takes it again though with it's PSM (Porsche Stability Management) the car feels so stable braking from silly speeds even around corners.

 

In summary *my* Supe is beaten hands down by the 996 around the twisties. The 996 can be driven fast by moderate drivers (I liken it to playing on those arcade machines Ridge Racer/Sega Rally), both hands on the steering wheel at all times, the autobox cleverly anticipating which gear you want, make it such an exhilerating drive. The Supe no doubt wouldn't be far behind in the hands of an experienced driver, but I'm not that driver :)

 

Third in town driving. Again this is where the 996 excels. It is such a pussy cat around the town, in stop start traffic or motorway journeys it is smooth & quiet and can be driven without even thinking. It is amazing how Porsche have produced a car with such power, performamce, handling & refinement in one car, I guess that's why they have the price tag they do. In comparison the Supe is a BRUTE!!! It is loud :) and the clutch is heavy and doesn't like stop start traffic at all, sit in 200m of inner city driving and you'll be begging for an open road. A single Supe is NOT a car I would use to regularly commute.

 

It probably sounds so far I like the 996 more but that isn't the truth, these cars are worlds appart and where the 996 would be the car to take when going out for a meal in a nice restaraunt etc, the Supe is the car you would take when you just wanna go out, make some noise and have every cell in your body tingle!!! In the 996 everything seems so safe, it takes some provoking to get out of shape (I haven't done this but my mate with his manual has) I could drive the 996 1 handed whilst tossing it round country lanes and still feel safe. In the Supe you really feel like you are driving a RACE CAR which could bite you at any time, & that frightens but at the same time exhillerates me. I'm not going to pick a favourite between the 2, (which is why I'm chosing to own both), they are both exceptional at what they do!!!

 

I hope this has been a fair comparison & given you guys an insight into the differences from someone first hand. I will of course add to this when I get my Supe's suspension, brakes & mapping sorted, then I think the 996 will be beaten, but we're back into the realms of standard vs modified and if you look at the performance packages you can get for the 996, £20k+ can easily be swallowed up making it a 800 bhp 800 ft/lbs monster!!!

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wow excellent write up and very objective and unbiased! nice one! :)

 

I guess nothing you mention surprises me except that you fell behind in the straight line race in 3rd but I bet with proper mapping, even at 0.8 bar still it would be a different story - once you get behind it really is very hard to catch back up again.

 

I guess comparing stock vs highly modified is unfair (maybe) but then so is comparing 10-15k car to nearly 100k (buy a small flat for that!)

 

I guess if you had 90k to spend in total, on the one hand you could have the porsche, on the other you could have 2 highly modded supras, one capable of silly straight line speeds, one build for racing around the corners (or maybe one that does both), a car for fun (Lotus Exige or Caterham or something) and still have a nice holiday in the sun :D

 

actually I'd probably by an Ult GTR 720 and destory you all :D

 

can't wait until you've done the rest of the work and report back on your findings, you really will have an animal on your hands then :D

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You're not thinking of coming to the dark side are you Steve :)

 

wow excellent write up and very objective and unbiased! nice one! :)

 

I guess nothing you mention surprises me except that you fell behind in the straight line race in 3rd but I bet with proper mapping, even at 0.8 bar still it would be a different story - once you get behind it really is very hard to catch back up again.

 

I guess comparing stock vs highly modified is unfair (maybe) but then so is comparing 10-15k car to nearly 100k (buy a small flat for that!)

 

I guess if you had 90k to spend in total, on the one hand you could have the porsche, on the other you could have 2 highly modded supras, one capable of silly straight line speeds, one build for racing around the corners (or maybe one that does both), a car for fun (Lotus Exige or Caterham or something) and still have a nice holiday in the sun :D

 

actually I'd probably by an Ult GTR 720 and destory you all :D

 

can't wait until you've done the rest of the work and report back on your findings, you really will have an animal on your hands then :D

 

Cheers Chilli, I tried to be as unbiased as possible, the truth is both cars are awesome in totally different ways,

 

Yeah I reckon with the map problem sorted (and being in the gear of my choice) it would have been even all the way, but the pure torque of the 996 at low revs is such an amazing quality.

 

Totally understand where you're coming from regarding other cars, if I was given £90k to spend on cars I doubt I'd spend it the same way twice :D

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was expecting the sup to beat the 911 on the straights (what happened to the power difference, 50bhp is not to be sniffed at bearing in mind that the weight of the cars is more of less the same).

 

Perhaps the 911 is aerodynamically better than the sup (wouldnt surprise me)

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was expecting the sup to beat the 911 on the straights (what happened to the power difference, 50bhp is not to be sniffed at bearing in mind that the weight of the cars is more of less the same).

 

Perhaps the 911 is aerodynamically better than the sup (wouldnt surprise me)

 

I can only assume it was the time/speed lost before the supra spooled and got going that made it almost impossible to regain - would have thought the mapping will sort that even if the bhp doesn't change (still at 0.8bar)

 

bearing in mind that I had a go with one of these a while back (no single, just bpu) and although from this thread you may not believe it, I gained on him and even got along side and waved before running out of road and taking the safe option of backing off. Gods honest truth that, and yes he was going for it because he virtually goaded me into it! lol Guess peak bhp is not the whole story and responsiveness / pick up and power/torque through the rev range is important

 

reckon a bit of mapping and jevansio's supra will kill the 996 dead in water in a relatively straight line, then it's time to work on the brakes and handling :)

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Imi I was exactly the same as you, 50 bhp, I should beat it, but since I was 30 ftlbs down on torque and it's torque that pushes you along the results aren't going to be as straight forward as you think, also you have to bear in mind area under the curve, the Supe may produce more peak bhp, but the 996 amy have more area under the curve. It re-inforces my belief that peak bhp is no measure of which car is quicker on the road. PS both cars have the same co-efficient of drag.

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It re-inforces my belief that peak bhp is no measure of which car is quicker on the road.

 

A belief I strongly agree with, take a responsive TDi on some interesting roads and it soon becomes apparent that torque and a quick spool beats pub bragging BHP :)

 

Porsche clearly know what they are doing :cool:

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A belief I strongly agree with, take a responsive TDi on some interesting roads

 

Drove a company turbo diesel Golf the other day and oh what fun! Responsive and rapid without ever getting into that 'scary' zone like the Supra does, especially in urban driving.

 

Almost made me want one.

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A belief I strongly agree with, take a responsive TDi on some interesting roads

 

that is very true, those Golf TDi's are surprisingly quick....

 

I would expect them to run out of steam on a top speed run though (thats where top bhp plays dividends, the reason why I am a bit surprised that the supra couldnt make use of the 50bhp difference)

 

Then again, it reminds me of the episode of Topgear where they compared the Aston, BMW M6 and a 911 (C2) - and the C2 with a lot less BHP came up trumps (purely down to the chassis and the brakes).

 

so seems like the 911 turbo is simply just a brilliant piece of engineering.

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Interesting read although i need you to leave your porsche with me so i can give a fair and accurate opinion myself :innocent:

 

Maybe update the thread with the costs you incur on the porsche, i always here nightmare stories of rip off servicing etc but would like to hear from the horses mouth what it actually costs to run.

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Nice write up, supercars such as porsche, lambo's and ferraris always have the advantage of great throttle response in the race's ive had with them, there is a trick/cheat to over come this though, left foot braking, bring the car up to boost and hold it on the brake with ya left foot, when they are ready to go let rip and they wont get the jump.

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Nice write up, supercars such as porsche, lambo's and ferraris alway the the advantage of great throttle response in the race's ive had with them, there is a trick/cheat to over come this though, left foot braking, bring the car up to boost and hold it on the brake with ya left foot, when they are ready to go let rip and they wont get the jump.

 

I keep reading this in the US,is it just as if you were doing a burnout where your over powering the brake pads?

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