View Full Version : Has driving another car totally spoilt the Supra for you?
Cutting a long story very short I was lucky enough to get a ride in a 2007 911 Turbo recently. Even better was the chance to drive it for a few miles.
Now, I want one. Badly. It was everything the Supra isn't. It was responsive, handled like it was on rails, it didn't rattle and sounded amazing.
The thing is that I can't stop thinking about it but know I'll never be able to afford one. I can't even stretch to a GT3.:d
So, that's the car that has spoiled the Supra for me.
What's yours?
RobSheffield
07-06-07, 23:27
My 1995 Peugeot 405 1.9 NONE turbo diesel
It doesnt need to be worried about, i can lob it into corners knowing that if i crash it i aint lost more than £500 worth, i can bounce over potholes without loss of vertebrae, i can mount curbs without fear of buckled wheels
Need i go on?
Gaz Walker
07-06-07, 23:29
It was everything the Supra isn't. It was responsive, handled like it was on rails, it didn't rattle and sounded amazing.
Thing is Martin, you can fix all of that - it just costs about as much as a Porsche ;)
Gaz.
My 1995 Peugeot 405 1.9 NONE turbo diesel
It doesnt need to be worried about, i can lob it into corners knowing that if i crash it i aint lost more than £500 worth, i can bounce over potholes without loss of vertebrae, i can mount curbs without fear of buckled wheels
Need i go on?
Not what I was really getting at but I can see your point.
RobSheffield
07-06-07, 23:30
Thing is Martin, you can fix all of that - it just costs about as much as a Porsche ;)
Gaz.
Or you can do it yourself for a LOT less, it just takes 6 months ;)
Or you can do it yourself for a LOT less, it just takes 6 months ;)
Having been in a few singles with 'flavour of the month' bits on I have to say they still aren't in the same league.
I hate to say it but when Clarkson said the Supra was "..... a super car but not a supercar" he was right.
I hate to say it but when Clarkson said the Supra was "..... a super car but not a supercar" he was right.
Compared with what was out at the time of its release its up there.
Compared to a 2007 911 Turbo is a bit unfair :)
Compared with what was out at the time of its release its up there.
Compared to a 2007 911 Turbo is a bit unfair :)
I wasn't comparing it directly but having been in one I'd pay 100k if I had it rather than throwing money at a Supra.
It was responsive, handled like it was on rails, it didn't rattle and sounded amazing
Yup, thats my Supra:)
M3 CSL. Blew my mind...and I don't even like BMWs.
After driving a Porsche 911 turbo recently it made me consider selling the Supra. It does everything you said and in such a refined manner. However, since the single is now fully mapped I couldn't go back to a 911, despite it's refinement.
I also drive my mates SL55 AMG quite regularly, though it's a lovely car its not much fun to drive.
The one I've resisting spending any time in is a Ferrari 355 or 360 as that might see the end to Supra ownership :D It’s not so much the performance (they’re only a bit quicker than BPU), but the thrill of driving them is something else.
M3 CSL. Blew my mind...and I don't even like BMWs.
blasphemy!
go and stand in the corner, say three hail-marys and prey to god (japan) for forgiveness :d
After driving a Porsche 911 turbo recently it made me consider selling the Supra. It does everything you said and in such a refined manner. However, since the single is now fully mapped I couldn't go back to a 911, despite it's refinement.
What is it about your single that makes you say that?
I think for a car driven on the roads its mostly superficial anyway, you're not going to test the true capabilities of your car on the public roads compared to track driving.
I'm sure you've seen the vid how Bignum did against a GT3 with not even full BPU around Bedford Autodrome. TBH many of these nice expensive cars didnt impress me as much as I thought they would have out on the track.
Maybe if you had a manual you'd get more driver involvment out of your car.
But yes.. if I had 100k to spend on a car, it wouldnt be on Supra mods either :)
GT3 with what? 400+ bhp and no turbo lag. Weighs less than a Supra but costs several times more. I'd assume the GT3 owner wasn't really pushing it or that Bignum was the better driver of the two.
What is it about your single that makes you say that?
It's mostly due to the power delivery.
The Supra has less "get up and go" in 1st, but as the gears get up, there is just so much more torque available. Nothing else I've ever driven has the power at 3-4k rpm that the Supra now has.
It's hard to describe, they're very different machines, but the Supra is thrilling whereas the Porsche (though very fast) felt a little mundane.
I've driven an older 911, and also in an Elise, and these cars really highlighted the lack of pointiness in the Supra steering.
I mean - the car is what it is, and the Supra probably wouldn't work properly with that kind of steering, but the lighter, pointier cars certainly capture that "go-kart" feeling more than a Supra does....
Some days you want straight line speed. Some days you want the looks. Some days you want to be driving a go-kart. Some days you even want a bit of practicality.
Short of having a car for all circumstances, the Supra is a damn fine compromise across all these aspects.
GT3 with what? 400+ bhp and no turbo lag. Weighs less than a Supra but costs several times more. I'd assume the GT3 owner wasn't really pushing it or that Bignum was the better driver of the two.
I guess you've not seen the vid then ;)
One Lap of America was another good example of how well the Supra can perform compared to many newer machines.. did you read about that result?
I guess you've not seen the vid then ;)
Martin, watch the vid ;)
The GT3 was giving is some that day and Bignum stuck with him easily. The GT3 had more power on the straights, but Bignum was faster through the corners.
I kept up with it on the main straight but was getting killed in the corners (lack of skill more than anything).
I have watched the vid and Bignum himself said that he couldn't have passed without a crazy lunge.
It would've been nice if Bignum had asked the GT3 driver how hard he was pushing and what experience he had. Every review I've ever seen of the GT3 bangs on about how well it corners so I'm assuming Bignum was the better man at cornering for that day. Fair play to the guy. If I'd been the GT3 driver I know I would have signed up for some more track days after that result.
Or maybe the 90k+ value of the car was on his mind. If I was in it I know damn sure that a 2CV would have been quicker through the corners and the 2CV forum would have been buzzing at how it's faster in the corners than Porsche.
It'd be nice to get a bunch of Supercars together with a few Supras of various tuning stages, hand them over to a professional driver and see how similar (or not) the lap times are.
We do seem to have a somewhat blind devotion to the Supra on here. Nothing wrong with that but when it gets to the "I beat this", "I beat that" stage I often wonder just what the truth of the matter is.
Put it like this. If I had a job that could buy me a 911 Turbo or a Gallardo etc etc I'd also have other responsibilities to think of. While I might have a play with a Supra I'm pretty sure I'd have a reality check of the situation at some point and wonder WTF I was trying to prove while hoping I hadn't been caught at 'soap on a rope', job losing speeds.
I await the day when it's decided that the Veyron isn't all that fast after all and can be shown up in a BPU Supra.:rolleyes:
Another thing. Why the lack of time attack or racing Supras?
They're dirt cheap and you could strip them out, stick in a cage, sort the engine and suspension and still come in cheaper than a GT3 or the like?
Yet, people still don't go for them.
George does 7.54 (think) around the 'ring in his Supra. Nuff said. :)
Have a word with Jeveniso in a few weeks after he's given his new built single a good run in, he's got a 996 Turbo too, would be interesting to hear a comparson
Even though it's almost 18 years old now, my 964 spoils my Supra experience a bit.
When I had the Supra TT about 8 years ago, it was by far the best car I'd owned. But I was very surprised at the difference between the 964 and my current Supra - it does feel like the 964 corners on rails (probably not as well as a modern 997 turbo, but still very well), stops quicker, and you can just feeeeeeel so much more of what's going on.
I tend to think of them as quite different cars - the 911s are outright sports cars (more true the older they are I think) - the Supra is more GT. It's a lot bigger / heavier and is better than the 964 in other ways.
captainchaos
08-06-07, 08:27
sorry but non of these new plastic sportscars do nothing for me the only thing i would give the supra up for is the likes of a 68 charger or a GT500. Before i started the rebuild on the supra was running 470bhp and im sorry but there is no better feeling in the world than going against somebodys lovely new expensive sports car and them not being to able beat your 14 year old supra. But saying that for the fun part i loved my old civic type R (played with alot).
sorry but non of these new plastic sportscars do nothing for me the only thing i would give the supra up for is the likes of a 68 charger or a GT500. Before i started the rebuild on the supra was running 470bhp and im sorry but there is no better feeling in the world than going against somebodys lovely new expensive sports car and them not being to able beat your 14 year old supra.
In a straight line.
Power isn't everything. My 964 is quicker than the Supra - although a TT would leave it for dead. I still prefer driving the 964 though.
GeordieSteve
08-06-07, 08:32
I'm with you all on the porsche thing. Never was a fan of them until I went out in Jay's car. Everything just seemed so smooth and comfortable. Lovely lovely car
I'm with you all on the porsche thing. Never was a fan of them until I went out in Jay's car. Everything just seemed so smooth and comfortable. Lovely lovely car
This is what is worrying me. I have never been in a 911 but I know that when I do, it will be time to get my hands on some serious cash!!:rolleyes:
I love my Supra but I am well aware that there are better cars out there from a driving point of view, but NONE look as good!!
H.
It depends what your looking for - i want my supra to be a bit of an animal (who needs traction ;) ) Some thing like the porche..... ofcourse its a better car its so many years further on in the sports car world, but also completly different.
I drive all sorts of nice cars, but none of them belong to me and i couldnt afford them anyway... therefore whats the point in letting it ruin my car.
The new Dodge Challenger, coming out in 2008, is the only thing that's made my heart and mind start to stray from the Supra. Mmmm, Challenger....
I'd probably have to wait 3 years for a 2nd hand one though. By which time the Supra will be worthless, so I'd just have to have both :D
-Ian
I love my Supra to bits, but recently had the pleasure of taking a tuned Evo 6 for a blast, amazing acceleration and the grip absolutely stunned me! Made the Supe feel dissapointingly slow afterwards. (Yes I have an NA:d )
Also took a 350z for a test drive, very nice car, very quick and no rattles or squeaks! If it had more than two seats, I would seriously consider one.
Another thing. Why the lack of time attack or racing Supras?
They're dirt cheap and you could strip them out, stick in a cage, sort the engine and suspension and still come in cheaper than a GT3 or the like?
Yet, people still don't go for them.
I've always asked this also.
The Supra is a very capable car in proper race trim.
But the rules of racing here in Europe are less favourable for turbo'd cars compared to NA cars. And that is why they wouldn't be competative without a huge development budget thrown at them. Only the likes of what a factory team could do. But then factory teams only race models of cars that are currently on sale in order to promote them.
The likes of a Porsche 911 has had major major major development over the years and it's chassis is so finely tuned to each suspension setup it is unreal. Therefore the power delivery is spot on and the balance of the car in the corners is way above the Supra.
But as a Supra can output a lot more power it would depend on the type of track as to which would win if you put a race prepared Supra up against a race prepared 911.
I've driven a 911 GT3 and was very impressed with it. You get the feeling of being able to brake much later and cary a lot more speed into corners than you can with a Supra.
But as mentioned earlier if you were able to develop the Supra and fine tune it to a specific track I'd say there wouldn't be much difference between the two.
Baring in mind the cost difference, the Supra is top notch car.
R3DG3CKO ROB
08-06-07, 09:23
Dangerous game, taking a ride in another awesome car...
One of the guys I met at the Marham trackday had spent thousands on his Integra Type R getting it ready for the trackday. Then the F40 parked next to him and started chatting to him...
Next thing he knows he's climbing in the passenger seat and off onto the track...
Apparently, he said he wished he hadn't as the rest of the day just seemed very slow indeed!
I think the main difference between the Supra and some of the more exotic cars out there that have been mentioned like the Porsches and suchlike is how you connect with the car.
I had a Porsche 993 before the Supra, and the driving experience can't be compared. In the Porsche, you felt connected with the car. Part of it. You sit in it not on it.
Every input you gave to the car, it reacted to it, whereas, I find the Supra slightly less involving and that level of connection isn't quite there.
Don't get me wrong, the Supra is a fantastic car. Few of us take them on trackdays, or find out exactly how hard they can corner, how stable they are under braking. I think the weakness in the car in terms of feel is it's steering. It just lacks that level of communication that other more sports orientated cars have.
Don't forget, we're comparing (for some of us now) our 14yr old cars against much newer and more modern stuff. Now that should make you realise, how ahead of it's time the Supra was.
Forget well sorted singles, they're in a different league, but bang for buck a bpu'd Supra is a match for many modern sports cars on the road. But the bench mark is slowly being raised.
Anyway the answer to the original question was my 993 was a better drive, but I didn't like owning it. The ownership experience of my Supra has been far far better. :)
I hate to say it but when Clarkson said the Supra was "..... a super car but not a supercar" he was right.
Clarkson et al were basing their opinion on a UK spec stock car. I think their opinion would be different if it was a BPU+ vvti motor. Stock Supra's don't have much of a thrill as far as power is concerned.
Chris Wilson
08-06-07, 10:19
My problem is that I have raced for many years, and still have a couple of nice modern race cars to play with. After that *ANY* road car feels slow, heavy and floaty. I just haven't got a kick from driving on the road for ten or more years. For sure I like nice road cars, but drive a Volvo, and just use a mildly modded Skyline GTS for the odd track day as I can take jane and friends out for a bit of fun in it. If I had a ton of spare cash i wouldn't put it into a road car at all, it'd be a race car that would not devalue, or into a different house.
As a slight aside, being lucky enough to drive lots of Supras, Skylines, RX-7 FD's and the like, the ones with modest sized turbos and good mapping *ALWAYS* blow the pants of the mega turbo ones, as a road car. Whilst a big turbo is wheezing its way towards proper boost, a little turbo, or healthy J-Spec stock ones, are up and running and the cars like a rabbit out of the corners. It is VERY easy to build a big dyno HP engine that's a total dog in a road car :) One day someone will drop an ali big block V8 Chevy in a Supra and those that get to ride in it will desperately want one. Turbos are great, modern well set up turbos, superb, but for that instant pin backed in the seat feeling, you need a BIG but fairly light N/A with stump pulling torque (in a heavy road car).
If I was forced to spend a lot of money on a fast road car, what would I reluctantly buy? Depends just how much money I was made to squander, but none classic stuff aside, maybe a McLaren F1 or on a slightly less heady budget, a Mosler MT900 would be quite fun, if very impractical.
You could have a gas turbine engined F1 car, some b@stard would come up with something that went faster and handled better...
Its important to have a car that:
A] you feel good/comfortable driving -A car is like wearing an outfit. Lets face it as nice as porches and ferraris are round a track I for one would feel like a poser stock broker or something just driving it around town. Its like wearing a tuxedo for a trip to tescos, whereas the supra is a good all round smart-casual :
B] You can afford. no point busting your ass trying to afford a car that you'll then struggle to insure/fuel/service/repair. That takes the fun out of it.
C] A car you can see yourself keeping. for at least the forseeable. If you start wondering what your going to get next after only having the car a while.
I'm a bit left of centre with cars. Most people have one pride and joy and are 'Monogomous'. I'm more of a Bigamist when it comes to cars, If I really like something I'll keep it, and still get the next one. Horses for courses and all that, cant have any one car that fulfills every request. Thats why I have about 7 cars at the moment! Oops! :D
Went out in a 500bhp Ultima GTR and oh my god I have never been in something that handled the way it did the stopping power was stupidly hard and the acceleration was everything that the supra isnt just gut renching with just raw power on tap from the 7ltr V8. As you sit right infront of the engine that has a rather short straight through exausts its also sounds awesome couldnt really talk in it though and deffently not a just popping to the shops type car but I am going to have one in a few years when the insuance drops. Ok I understand compairing a car 2 seater MR £50k+ super car to the humble supra is a bit unfair I still just remind myself I have nearly 400 horses at the age of 23 much more than most people my age.
SUPRASUZUKI
08-06-07, 11:08
I've borrowed an Esprit V8GT to go to Paris for a stag weekend. I'll be an intersting comparison. Specially in the wet.... :innocent:
What you lot all need to get the most out of your Supras is the CG Lock. You will completely connect with the car, if you're held in place like using a harness.
I'm getting the most out of my car now, because I'm not having to brace myself on every bend and tight corner. Excellent.
I'm trying to sort out a group buy for these.
captainchaos
08-06-07, 12:01
The new Dodge Challenger, coming out in 2008, is the only thing that's made my heart and mind start to stray from the Supra. Mmmm, Challenger....
I'd probably have to wait 3 years for a 2nd hand one though. By which time the Supra will be worthless, so I'd just have to have both :D
-Ian
Ahhhh you havnt seen the new camaro have you?
http://automotive-links.mustangv8.com/RSS-directory/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/10000/normal_2009camaro.jpg
now that thing is mean
Chris Wilson
08-06-07, 12:08
Another example of trans atlantic good taste :)
Nope, Camaro is a wannabe ;)
See attached.
E. Vil.
http://www.dodge.com/en/challenger/gallery/index.html
Gaddammit I want one. 6.1l Hemi V8, 500bhp out the factory. Snarl. And it won't be silly money like Porsches with half the power.
I don't really car much about extracting that last 0.01g of cornering, I just like a car to feel taut and connected to the road and be able to accelerate and brake nicely. SO I'd be happy with this and chances are I'd fit in it too ;)
-Ian
Nope, Camaro is a wannabe ;)
See attached.
E. Vil.
Er - that looks like a Ford Cortina!
I do like the look of the Camaro. Looks like it's about to pick a fight.
http://www.dodge.com/en/challenger/gallery/index.html
Gaddammit I want one. 6.1l Hemi V8, 500bhp out the factory. Snarl. And it won't be silly money like Porsches with half the power.
I don't really car much about extracting that last 0.01g of cornering, I just like a car to feel taut and connected to the road and be able to accelerate and brake nicely. SO I'd be happy with this and chances are I'd fit in it too ;)
:drool:
that is niiiiice! gotta love the 'telemetry' screen in the dials too listing 1/4 mile time etc :d
LHD only as per usual then?
Strangely mine is my recent purchase of an old MX5. Though the Supra is a hell of a lot faster, the steering feel, handling and fun of the MX5 does make my Supra feel a little dull and detached.
I'm sorry but it seems to me that the guys that would contemplate owning another car for reasons of performance in this argument are ones that (in particular thread starter) dont use the supra to its full advantage...how can you feel what a supra is like in an auto form?
I've never understood how anycar can be labelled in performance in the auto form!
True, it would be financially viable to just buy a porsche, and if I had the money(and the sense) I'd just save for the porsche turbo too, but it would not be for performance reasons, stock manual supvs new car then yes, I understand the argument.
But bpu + or a good set-up single sup and your clutching at straws in terms of performance comparisons
For me the Ultima GT(Probably due to it being within my price range) would be a car I'd sell the sup for if I was looking for a performance 'upgrade', I know the porsche would be very nice, but just not as thrilling as the sup, esp in 6spd Single form
I'm sorry but it seems to me that the guys that would contemplate owning another car for reasons of performance in this argument are ones that (in particular thread starter) dont use the supra to its full advantage...how can you feel what a supra is like in an auto form?
I've never understood how anycar can be labelled in performance in the auto form!
Wow, did you just upset a lot of members.
Mind you - I've only got an NA so even though it's manual I guess I'm probably worse off than the auto turbo boys (and girls). ;)
You could have a gas turbine engined F1 car, some b@stard would come up with something that went faster and handled better...
Its important to have a car that:
A] you feel good/comfortable driving -A car is like wearing an outfit. Lets face it as nice as porches and ferraris are round a track I for one would feel like a poser stock broker or something just driving it around town. Its like wearing a tuxedo for a trip to tescos, whereas the supra is a good all round smart-casual :
B] You can afford. no point busting your ass trying to afford a car that you'll then struggle to insure/fuel/service/repair. That takes the fun out of it.
Wise words, my friend. :yes:
Chris Wilson
08-06-07, 12:41
I used to have a Challenger, it was an absolute dog of a thing, wouldn't stop, wouldn't corner, things fell off, or were about to fall off. Nice shape, like a Ventora on steroids. It brought a new realisation to me, as to what "drinking petrol" really could mean! Only thing worse was a Chrysler New Yorker, which was just ridiculous, with sub 10 MPG if you used any of its prodigous grunt. The Challenger was fast in a straight line, (well, with 426 cubic inches with a lot of compression it should have been..), but show it a stop light or bends and it threw the towel in. I am told they are valuable now, if you have one that still has a floor and wheel arches left in it :)
I also had a Covette, a 1970, which came with an LT1 small block, but I later put a 427 bg block in it. That was another death trap, sadly, in its case, a true one, as a subsequent owner managed to kill herself in it, which came as no huge surprise given its suspension and iffy brakes, and steering that became Herculean and with 6 inches of free play, if it threw a PAS pump belt, as it was won't to do. I gave up on yank tanks after thatm although Jane has a Cherokee Jeep, that is pretty good off road, and has proven failrly reliable.
Chrysler are very bold at the moment. Lots of car for little cash, and as far as styling goes they seem fearless. I have a 3.5 V6 race engine in for rebuild at the moment, it's based on the one from something called a Predator, I think, a quite wild looking beast that was apparently sold in the UK, but never caught on. It's a nice all alloy thing, that gives a modest 380 BHP, but can do it all day long with little attention.
Chris Wilson
08-06-07, 12:43
If I bought another MKIV it would have to be an auto, the getrag is an awful box, slow and heavy, although it seems quite relaible. Even though a lot of my driving is out here in the sticks I still spend a LOT of time in heavy traffic and motorway queues, and a manual is just a PITA then. Modern auto `boxes are just so good, too :)
Chris Wilson
08-06-07, 12:46
Strangely mine is my recent purchase of an old MX5. Though the Supra is a hell of a lot faster, the steering feel, handling and fun of the MX5 does make my Supra feel a little dull and detached.
Great little sports cars, sadly getting obese with each model update. Jane had one and loved it, would like to persuade her to get another, but she needs something bigger these days. What a success story the MX5 has been!
captainchaos
08-06-07, 12:47
one of my bros many yanks his little project at the min
1942 ford van KINDA
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/closey19/Image004.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/closey19/Image005.jpg
I'm sorry but it seems to me that the guys that would contemplate owning another car for reasons of performance in this argument are ones that (in particular thread starter) dont use the supra to its full advantage...how can you feel what a supra is like in an auto form?
I've never understood how anycar can be labelled in performance in the auto form!
I don't want to spark a war here, but an auto BPU Supra in Manual Mode is one of a heck of a car. Don't write it off before you've really had some experience driving it.
The only other super car I've been out in was a Porsche 911 Turbo back in the early 90's. Small, cramped, smelly, but I must admit, very fast. No comparison to what I have now.
I've been looking longingly at MK1 MX-5's, I want something cheap, lightweight and basic, that I can prep as a track car and do all the work on myself.
Much as I'd love to do more track days in the Supra, the costs start to add up and I suspect I'd get more enjoyment out of the little MX-5 knowing it wouldn't cost me much to fix.
Yes maybe...but in comparison to a BPU manual? Everyone is different but unless you want a the sup to be solely fast on a drag strip, of which the auto is probably better at, then I cant see the point.
Even if someone has a well setup single auto(minus high stall:d ) and sits in the porsche turbo, your always gonna be impressed with the new enviroment and new features like throttle control, engine braking, a clutch! e.t.c
I feel someone going from manual single to the porsche is gonna be impressed with a lot less
The only thing I can say for any new car, no matter what it is, its sure to be more refined than the 13yr old sup,but I reckon I'll keep wanting my thrills til I'm a little older;)
So, to summarise so far.
A single turbo Supra is the best thing since sliced bread. King of the road. Better than the latest sports cars blah de blah.
Does this include all the "kwik fit" single conversions being done on limited budgets or just the uber-expensive built engine jobbies?
I must admit, I like the look of that Challenger - but I like the Camaro better!
But then again, I've always perferred Chev to Dodge anyway. Dodge always seemed to change components on their cars for the strangest of reasons. You'd find for example that a model with aircon would have some really strange differences to one without, like different mid-pipes in the exhaust or different ball joints in the suspension!! Bizarre.
Chev (& GM cars in general) were always much more consistant with their parts and hence much easier to identify and source parts correctly first time.
However, I'm sure that both of these cars will be great fun whichever you might choose. (And I'll bet they'll handle a whole lot better than the originals, too!)
Oh - and on the subject of old cars, I'd still rather drive a 1969 Camaro/Challenger than a 1969 Morris/Austin/Wolsey or whatever!
And 'yes', I have had a number of american cars of that era. (And now, the current era - but you can't compare the two any more than you can compare British cars of the same eras)
The Supra is still a great car to drive, but I now recognise that there are better cars out there, even if most of them cost more! My Corvette is a better drive for me, but we're still keeping one Supe!
So, to summarise so far.
A single turbo Supra is the best thing since sliced bread. King of the road. Better than the latest sports cars blah de blah.
That's pretty much it in a nutshell yes :D
Besides, an N/A could have that german crap any day :innocent:
Yes maybe...but in comparison to a BPU manual? Everyone is different but unless you want a the sup to be solely fast on a drag strip, of which the auto is probably better at, then I cant see the point.
IMO, you're talking out of that thing [-]you shit out of[/-] sit on.
Sounds to me like bolarbag got manualitis :D
Love the look of the new challenger.... and the camaro! I'd have either with a decent V8 in.
Cheers,
Brian.
I've been looking longingly at MK1 MX-5's, I want something cheap, lightweight and basic, that I can prep as a track car and do all the work on myself.
Much as I'd love to do more track days in the Supra, the costs start to add up and I suspect I'd get more enjoyment out of the little MX-5 knowing it wouldn't cost me much to fix.
Exactly why I bought one. It's something cheap enough for me to throw around without worrying about the cost if I fudge up. I also feel alot more compelled to tinker within the engine itself as again it's no big loss if I do something wrong. As Chris said the earlier ones are the best as they not too 'portly' :)
I've still got my Supra for the posing, speed and great noise :cool:
one of my bros many yanks his little project at the min
1942 ford van KINDA
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/closey19/Image004.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/closey19/Image005.jpg
What's that little thing where the engine should be? :d
One day someone will drop an ali big block V8 Chevy in a Supra and those that get to ride in it will desperately want one.
Funny you should mention that, I have had very SERIOUS discussions about putting a ZL1 block in a supra. The engine would be pushed back as it's a v8 and so weight distribution better. Power would be there instantly and the block only weighs something like 600lbs ;)
I think Bolarbag is on to something regarding the autobox. If someone dumped all the parts for a manual conversion on my doorstep FOC I'd have the conversion done tomorow, and I suspect I'm not the only one put off by the cost of the conversion either.
I have been using MANU mode more lately, but it still isn't quite the same is it.
Are any other gearboxes suitable for a 6spd conversion?
Btw, the car that spoilt my Supra was a 996X50 tuned by DMS.
Went out in a 500bhp Ultima GTR and oh my god I have never been in something that handled the way it did the stopping power was stupidly hard and the acceleration was everything that the supra isnt just gut renching with just raw power on tap from the 7ltr V8. As you sit right infront of the engine that has a rather short straight through exausts its also sounds awesome couldnt really talk in it though and deffently not a just popping to the shops type car but I am going to have one in a few years when the insuance drops. Ok I understand compairing a car 2 seater MR £50k+ super car to the humble supra is a bit unfair I still just remind myself I have nearly 400 horses at the age of 23 much more than most people my age.
Nice, a MKIV Supra turbo beat a Ultima GTR in the one lap of America race by quite some distance.. irrc.
As a slight aside, being lucky enough to drive lots of Supras, Skylines, RX-7 FD's and the like, the ones with modest sized turbos and good mapping *ALWAYS* blow the pants of the mega turbo ones, as a road car. Whilst a big turbo is wheezing its way towards proper boost, a little turbo, or healthy J-Spec stock ones, are up and running and the cars like a rabbit out of the corners. It is VERY easy to build a big dyno HP engine that's a total dog in a road car :)
it's really good to hear you say that and to me it makes a lot of sense too
lots of people going for big bhp dyno figures with less concern for driveability and the whole package - then being surprised when they experience some other car that offers the more complete picture.
I've come from the lighter 4wd lancia delta and this was a back road king, yet one thing that impressed me with the supra at bpu with j-spec turbos was it's responsiveness and driveability around the back roads - real usable power through the manual box - quicker than the lancia in all but the tightest bends (and in the wet). This to me was impressive and a real eye opener, and is one of the main reasons I've had a reluctance to go single. I think bang per buck this sort of setup takes some beating really, especially through the manual box.
tbh this sort of set up is faster than I could want to go around public roads and I'd get more by learning to drive what I have than chasing more power at the expense of response and driveability.
I guess at the end of the day there is always something quicker (and often more expensive), but if you can get the most out of what you have and enjoy it and still be quicker than 99% of other cars out there in something affordable and reliable (and good looking) then you can't be going to far wrong, can you?
Great thread! It's nice that, as a forum, we can debate the good AND the bad points of the Supra. I'm now coming up to 5 years of ownership and will probably have it for a while yet.
However, I'm sad to say I now find the Supra kind of dull to drive since I bought an Elise. The Supra is by far the better car, but the Elise is in a class of its own with regard to steering feel, throttle response and understanding what the car is doing underneath you.
I rarely took the Supra out for a drive, just for the sake of driving. But I do it all the time in the Elise. That's what makes the difference to me.
So, to summarise so far.
A single turbo Supra is the best thing since sliced bread. King of the road. Better than the latest sports cars blah de blah.
Does this include all the "kwik fit" single conversions being done on limited budgets or just the uber-expensive built engine jobbies?
For my sins I work for Shit Fit and we hav'nt started doing single conversions yet.:)
For my sins I work for Shit Fit and we hav'nt started doing single conversions yet.:)
I know. ;)
With the cost of supra going down, you could never get that much for it, so why not keep it for the road and get something else for the track.
Must agree with a load of the points already... CW a race prepared car puts ANY road car to shame for feel and so on. Modern day auto are really good and yes an auto in traffic is great and very easy.
However the supra is old and yes, well ahead of its time! There is nothing out there that has the potential that the supra has (bang for buck).
The good thing with the supra is easy to modify to what ever level you like, you change the exterior and make it your own, it will hold its own against my supercars. If you do stack it on the track it will not cost as much as stacking a GT3...
However, I'm sad to say I now find the Supra kind of dull to drive since I bought an Elise. The Supra is by far the better car, but the Elise is in a class of its own with regard to steering feel, throttle response and understanding what the car is doing underneath you.
I rarely took the Supra out for a drive, just for the sake of driving. But I do it all the time in the Elise. That's what makes the difference to me.
interesting you say that, totally understand where you're coming from
apart from the exotic/expensive (in which case I'll take the Ultima GTR please) then something small, lightweight, nimble and fun like that is the sort of thing that might tempt me away from the supra one day.
My affordable idea is something like an Exige with some engine transplant (that doesn't ruin the car) as a fast road driving blast :D - still those cars are not cheap yet which kills the bang for buck, at the moment
The Supra is a great combination, very quick, great looks (better than a 996/M3/etc IMHO), four seats and awesome reliability.
On the topic of Porsche's, my flatmate's dad has a 2000 996 C4. Purchased from a main dealer, regularly serviced and very well looked after with 30k miles yet he's had no end of problems with it, the most major of which has been failure of the head gasket leaving him with a bill of around £8k, and apparently it's just happened again! It's certainly put me off the idea of Porsche ownership...
I can't think of any other car with the same level of power and reliability as the Supra.
All that said I do quite fancy something that's a little more involving and nippy - in my old CRX VT I used to nail it out of the lights at every opportunity, in the Supra I feel like I've become a bit of a cruising old man! Ultimately I'd love to have a track day car on the side which quite a few people on here to seem to do...
dangerous brain
08-06-07, 20:33
Man what a crock of crap this thread is. I'm surprised that Chris hasn't come down on the side of common sense here. Yeah a brand spanking new 2007 Porsche is going to impress a man on so many different levels, as would a Veyron, as would any other exotic piece of metal including a spankin new roller.
The point thats being missed here a bit is wether or not you let the experience alter your opinion of your own car. For me totally no. For sure I would love to cruise down the Boulevard in a spankin new rari but guess what I have a wife and child and a job that just pays the bills so that just aint happenin. I am more than happy with my car. I've followed bignum around a swamped castle donington in my car and stuck firmly with him, I also had a newish GT3 follow me round right up until he span it off. He didn't have the beans to get past me on the straights and I handled just well enough to hold him off in the bends.
All this talk of singles is utter bollox. The better way of showing up a 911 is to get shot of that GT riding suspension and fit some decent track biased stuff, then and only then will you realise the supras potential. All of the power in the world is useless unless you can control it. I also take on board the whole auto/manual thing but for a decent setup twin high power BPU car the auto is almost acceptable through tight lower speed circuits.
I found my single a bit of a disadvantage coupled to my auto box at Zaandvoort as it has alot of very tight low second gear bends in an auto that would be high second gear waiting to blast onto third in a manual but too quick for my first gear so I had to sit on the lag or bounce the rev limiter. Its all about bend exit ability and I was bogged down summat chronic.
If I could even it up a bit I'd say OK lads lets stick 4 passengers in the car, and whilst we are at it stick 3 peoples suitcases in the boot and a couple of vanity cases. Then we'll have another go at that track :)
MMMM OK this thread progressed a bit whilst I was forming my response :D
MarkTheBoy
08-06-07, 21:31
Im lucky because i'd driven lots of fun cars before I bought the soop so went into ownership with eyes wide open.
Loved the Supra from the first moment my arse hit the leather and the key turned...
Having said that I was almost tempted by;
Lotus Exige (awesome responsive handling)
Caterham 1800 (raw enjoyment)
TVR Tuscan & T350C (both incredible and so much torque!)
If I had a massive private track and I could only have one of the above it would probably be the Caterham. If I had to buy a car to be seen in it would be a Tuscan.
As far as being tempted away from the soop... not yet! :cool:
As an n/a owner I dream of having a sinlgr turbo manual conversion aerotop in black!
Even if I won the lottery (rollover) i'd still get one first!
For me, the above with tp secret bodykit and trd spoiler and new interior would be a dream.
Its the best lookind car out there when modded properly.
I'd send it to Envy with a wad of cash and ask Gaz to put the best on it!!
Driven a Porker and Maser CC and prefer the Supra over both. :)
Ahhhh you havnt seen the new camaro have you?
http://automotive-links.mustangv8.com/RSS-directory/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/10000/normal_2009camaro.jpg
now that thing is mean
Couldn't resist...
I think Bolarbag is on to something regarding the autobox. If someone dumped all the parts for a manual conversion on my doorstep FOC I'd have the conversion done tomorow, and I suspect I'm not the only one put off by the cost of the conversion either.
I have been using MANU mode more lately, but it still isn't quite the same is it.
You're having a laugh. The speed with which the autobox changes in manu mode is just remarkable. I love it. The only downside to the autobox is launching and lighting up the wheels in general, IMO.
You're having a laugh. The speed with which the autobox changes in manu mode is just remarkable. I love it. The only downside to the autobox is launching and lighting up the wheels in general, IMO.
I know it sounds crazy, but after discovering 1st gear recently, I am totally addicted to the initial pulling power. I was launching in 2nd before then, and missed out on the rush! My girlfriend doesn't like it at all! :D
I know the auto MANU has fewer gears, but selecting them is never a problem, its instant and without any selection errors. I wonder how many manual users have selected the wrong gear and potentially messed up a chase?
The handling is not a problem now either ;)
I know it sounds crazy, but after discovering 1st gear recently, I am totally addicted to the initial pulling power. I was launching in 2nd before then
How did you manage that? The only way to launch in 2nd is to have MANU-on with the stick in 2 or D. Is that what you were doing? :)
Na just using it in normal auto mode, and moving the gear stick into 2nd. It then launches from '1st' then virtually straight into 2nd, so I didn't really get to feel the full force of 1st. Anyway, after a year of ownership, its an absolute delight!
Back on topic, I think the idea of a supercharged V8 Supra would be the pups nuts! A bit thirsty though, I'd thought.
I wonder how many manual users have selected the wrong gear and potentially messed up a chase?
Never had a problem selecting gears in my manual....perhaps one needs to learn how to drive :D
It was everything the Supra isn't. It was responsive, handled like it was on rails, it didn't rattle and sounded amazing.
Quite suprised by that comment. I would never have said the supra handled badly, rattled or didn't sound amazing!
Not that I've driven a 911 and I'm sure it's loads different- but then it's new!!!
You're having a laugh. The speed with which the autobox changes in manu mode is just remarkable. I love it. The only downside to the autobox is launching and lighting up the wheels in general, IMO.
...and that you've got 4 long gears instead of six closer spaced ones. The accleration when you get into top drops significantly. I remember being matched up to an E39 M5 a few years ago, more or less even to 135mph, then my car went into OD and the M5 walked away. I can light up the rears and do huge arcing drifts (and nearly killed us and the 993 Turbo S I was racing once) and yes the standing starts are dog shit awful imo.
I must say firstly that i am more contented with my Supra than near any car i've owned previously, if i could change anything it would be a blown V8 under the hood. As for Porkers i've always been a fan of the 911, & its still the one to have for me, i absoloutely love the camaro, the dodge aint bad either.
Gaz Walker
09-06-07, 18:28
I'd send it to Envy with a wad of cash and ask Gaz to put the best on it!!
:)
I'd love someone here to write a blank cheque and ask us to create the ultimate road going Supra.
I reckon with the right bits, tuning, and chassis mods/setup you'd easily be able to skin the arses off one of those metal race Porches/Vipers round the 'Ring and till be able to drive it there and back. :D
Gaz.
:)
I'd love someone here to write a blank cheque and ask us to create the ultimate road going Supra.
If I win the lottery this'll happen.
Just look at the cars Twins Turbo build. Its already been done.
Gaz Walker
09-06-07, 19:00
Just look at the cars Twins Turbo build. Its already been done.
Isn't that the big power one they build on video? This road race car is fast, very fast!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZZ_8p6-zgk
Green Peace
10-06-07, 13:01
:)
I'd love someone here to write a blank cheque and ask us to create the ultimate road going Supra.
I reckon with the right bits, tuning, and chassis mods/setup you'd easily be able to skin the arses off one of those metal race Porches/Vipers round the 'Ring and till be able to drive it there and back. :D
Gaz.
Ok so theres a Vette C6 for £40k...say i bought a Supra for say £10k or less and spend £30k on mods, what kind of machine would i end up with, how many disputes with companies along the way lol but more importantly how reliable and could it be used as an everyday car...I bet £30k could creat quite a nice Supra! Lots have spent far more than that I know
There was a tt supra on ebay a few weeks ago nearly all the shell was carbon fibre looked very nice not sure what power it was think it went for around 17k a very nice car, i used to have a auto n/a 2 years ago loved the car just needed more power for my liking but for all the ones that seem to be getting sick of their car ill be after a tt in a few months lol
:)
I'd love someone here to write a blank cheque and ask us to create the ultimate road going Supra.
I reckon with the right bits, tuning, and chassis mods/setup you'd easily be able to skin the arses off one of those metal race Porches/Vipers round the 'Ring and till be able to drive it there and back. :D
Gaz.
That doesn't really mean the Supra is particularly special though does it? There are many cars I could pick up for £10K and with a blank cheque they could all be turned into something special.
dangerous brain
10-06-07, 15:40
Isn't that the big power one they build on video? This road race car is fast, very fast!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZZ_8p6-zgk
Wow thats a monster. The man can drive too. The car was clearly better on the brakes and corners than the two big power cars and at least strong enough to hold its own down the straights. Is that
still a 2JZ in there?? Made me laugh a little how all three of those cars made the other machines look like they weren't even trying :D
Strangely, the cars that spoils my supra, is two other Toyota's. First, my mates corolla gt ae82, and second my very tired MK1 MR2, series1, that I bought a while before the supra. It's totally standard. It's even got the original wheels. But it's just so much more fun. Its just the way it drives, with such a mentalist attitude. I keep throwing it into corners while sliding, and it never puts a foot wrong. That's just something you can't do in the supra. Other than that, it must be said; I really can't see myself ever selling the supra. As a high speed cruiser, I have never driven anything that beats it.
Edit: By the way, the supe is the best daily driver I've ever had!
Apologies for the thread ressurection!
One day someone will drop an ali big block V8 Chevy in a Supra and those that get to ride in it will desperately want one.
Where would one of these be found? Are these in the newer Corvettes?
How much would one be looking at for a swap? I'm also wondering if engines could be salvaged from the US (exchange rate and all).
Anyhow, just asking and curious.;)
Apologies for the thread ressurection!
Where would one of these be found? Are these in the newer Corvettes?
How much would one be looking at for a swap? I'm also wondering if engines could be salvaged from the US (exchange rate and all).
Anyhow, just asking and curious.;)
Theres quite a few people dropping the chevy lumps into RX7s now:)http://www.grannysspeedshop.com/
The one I've resisting spending any time in is a Ferrari 355 or 360 as that might see the end to Supra ownership :D It’s not so much the performance (they’re only a bit quicker than BPU), but the thrill of driving them is something else.
mmmm 360. Despite what my brother keeps telling me ("they aren't that good... blah blah blah"), I would really love to have a Ferrari 360. I think they are a great looking car and sound amazing.
Where would one of these be found? Are these in the newer Corvettes?
Corvettes haven't had a big block V8 since 1974
The aluminium small block LS series have been in Corvettes since the C5 came out in 1997.
It has gradually got bigger, from 5.7 (LS1) to 6.2 (LS3) for the 2008 non Z06 Corvette. The latest Z06 has the 7.0 LS7.
There is a 6-700bhp supercharged version due in 2009 (LS9), in a super fast Corvette called the Blue Devil or SS depending where you look :drool:
Corvettes haven't had a big block V8 since 1974
The aluminium small block LS series have been in Corvettes since the C5 came out in 1997.
It has gradually got bigger, from 5.7 (LS1) to 6.2 (LS3) for the 2008 non Z06 Corvette. The latest Z06 has the 7.0 LS7.
That's what I thought but as it was CW that mentioned it I thought it best not to argue.
I'd love a Z06 engine in a Supra. Lottery tonight. I'll keep you posted.:D
Chris Wilson
27-06-07, 12:30
There are all sorts of aftermarket alloy blocks for the big Chevy V8's now, it started with reynolds (a foundry) making alloy blocks for the Can Am series cars, nowadays you buy the bits to build a 10 litre Chevy V8. A run of the mill all alloy V8 Chevy on electronic injection will be about 25K. On a carb quite a bit less, but to be honest you'd be mad to go carbs nowadays.
I'd love a Z06 engine in a Supra. Lottery tonight. I'll keep you posted.:D
Thats like putting a Supra engine in a Civic. Not only is the engine better from stock (being hand built at the factory) the car out handles the Supra too.
I'd just rather have the Z06.
Plus why do you want a Vette engine? You arnt even BPU yet so you're missing out on a world of speed as it is! :)
Thats like putting a Supra engine in a Civic. Not only is the engine better from stock (being hand built at the factory) the car out handles the Supra too.
I'd just rather have the Z06.
Plus why do you want a Vette engine? You arnt even BPU yet so you're missing out on a world of speed as it is! :)
Ah, but the Z06 is LHD and I couldn't stand a LHD before (Pontiac Fiero - one month!) so probably couldn't stand one now.
As for why?, well it's just theory. It's fun to think outside the Supra box.
I'm tempted by a C5 Z06 to replace mine, 405 bhp sounds nice :)
It is only a fair weather car though, so i'd probably end up with a mildly modified Coupe (targa-top).
Also, its a big car to drive fast on the narrow roads around here, so I probably wouldn't get the benefit from a Z06.
eBay US - built crate engines for peanuts.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190126446817& - pre-blinged
If you have a bigger budget:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290132582685&
Lots more:
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=crate+engine&category0=
I wouldn't want one in a Supra though, it just wouldn't be right.
I am looking at one of these for my kit cobra, really good value and turnkey out of the box, only a bit of fine tuning needed!
Talking about corvettes, had a ride in a mosler mt900 mid engined 5.7 chevy supercharged 680hp that ruined the supra for me lol
I don't think i could ever get the supe to do what that can do.
mmmm 360. Despite what my brother keeps telling me ("they aren't that good... blah blah blah"), I would really love to have a Ferrari 360. I think they are a great looking car and sound amazing.
I didn't say that they aren't that good. I just said that they're for gays and footballers. Not the Stradale though :d
Chris Wilson
27-06-07, 16:45
Talking about corvettes, had a ride in a mosler mt900 mid engined 5.7 chevy supercharged 680hp that ruined the supra for me lol
I don't think i could ever get the supe to do what that can do.
Mmmm, nice cars... 900R would be a drea car for me.
Ah, but the Z06 is LHD and I couldn't stand a LHD before (Pontiac Fiero - one month!) so probably couldn't stand one now.
LOL @ the Fiero, yes that'd be enough to put most people off LHD :)
I could put up with LHD if it were a Z06.. anything that does a 7:4X time on Run flats around the ring is worthy in my book :)
dangerous brain
27-06-07, 18:33
I'd swap my car for a LHD equivalent at the drop of a hat now. Living on the continent does that to you. Not being able to see past that car in front of you so you can safely overtake it is getting to be a bit of a bind now. You soon get used to swapping hands for gear change too.
There was a tt supra on ebay a few weeks ago nearly all the shell was carbon fibre looked very nice not sure what power it was think it went for around 17k a very nice car, i used to have a auto n/a 2 years ago loved the car just needed more power for my liking but for all the ones that seem to be getting sick of their car ill be after a tt in a few months lol
sounds like No 1 gay racers,if so its a dog;)
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