MP3 players in cars - what d'ya think ?? [Archive]

Rolec

09-05-01, 09:01

The ones i'd mentioned are still CD based, just that they hold 10+ 'albums' per CD - which is considerably better than the 30 CD's i carry round in the Car.

They cost from £250 to £500...

If you want a hard-drive based one, have a look at empeg - www.empeg.com theirs is HD based - plugs straight into your network to company MP3's on to its HD - BUT costs about £700 + VAT..

Thats the one i'd really love, but can't stump the cash for that

Rich J

09-05-01, 11:55

From Richard at Work
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The ones i'd mentioned are still CD based, just that they hold 10+ 'albums' per CD - which is considerably better than the 30 CD's i carry round in the Car.

They cost from £250 to £500...

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I'd have to fork out for a CD burner as well :-(. Also do they download the whole track into memory or will I end up missing big sections when driving over the bumpy stuff.

WHat about MD is that better at avoiding jumping than CDs?
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If you want a hard-drive based one, have a look at empeg - www.empeg.com theirs is HD based - plugs straight into your network to company MP3's on to its HD - BUT costs about £700 + VAT..

Thats the one i'd really love, but can't stump the cash for that

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I've seen that one very nice, is it a radio tuner as well?

Rich

Rolec

09-05-01, 12:48

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I'd have to fork out for a CD burner as well :-(. Also do they download the whole track into memory or will I end up missing big sections when driving over the bumpy stuff.

WHat about MD is that better at avoiding jumping than CDs?
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CD burners are only around 100 quid now - and they have sooo many other benefits ;)

I dont know whether they advance sample - i'll have to investigate that..

They guy from Holland - can't remember his name - works for Lost Boys software, has a Kenwood unit - he will definately know the answer

I think MD can still skip but probably have the same sample ahead as the portable CD's

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I've seen that one very nice, is it a radio tuner as well?

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No, i believe it is MP3 only - but they is an add-on (i may be wrong) at http://mp3hardware.com there are a number of in car MP3 players - its worth a browse

Branners

09-05-01, 15:32

You could use the Sony system which uses a Sony memory stick, but then you might be limited on the amount of tracks you can store on it.

I used to use mini-disc in my old Supra but it is still limited to 70mins of music, although they are bring out a new MDLP system which has something like 200minutes of music. Still not much compared to the hours of music on a CDR.

Im still planning on plugging a portable CD MP3 player into the jack-in on my JVC unit as I tend not to use CDs much in the car anyway.

JB

Rolec

10-05-01, 08:25

Quote: from branners on 3:32 pm on May 9, 2001[br]Im still planning on plugging a portable CD MP3 player into the jack-in on my JVC unit as I tend not to use CDs much in the car anyway.

That's the joy of having a CDR - i keep 30 CD's in the little center console box - all copies of my own, so no real worry about getting them nicked :)

Dean..

GordonT

10-05-01, 11:38

Ive just Bought a Kenwood MP6090r and I must say its really pretty good, I removed the old double din unit and installed a tray below the new one.
It supports filenames of 32 characters and a fairly detailed directory stucture.
One thing to note is MP3 bit rates, many of them say that they will support variable rates, The Kenwood unit actually supports 128k at 44.1khz according to the manual.
That said, it looks good in place, and also has a switchable illumination (green or red).
It cost me £349

Gordon T.... 93 MKIV

DArby

10-05-01, 22:24

Quote: from GordonT on 11:38 am on May 10, 2001[br]
It supports filenames of 32 characters and a fairly detailed directory stucture.

Gordon T.... 93 MKIV

Can you explain the file structures a bit more - I assume you can have a directory with an album name - and then files within it as the tracks ??

Dean..

GordonT

11-05-01, 09:29

You can have a directory, say "House Music" or whatever you want really, then within that you could have maybe a few albums with directory names of thier own, then inside those so on and so on.....

matt

13-05-01, 20:35

Hey
I too have a Kenwood 6090mp3 and its gr8 !!
Ithink it looks pretty cool with auto scroll on the display......... the big blue button gives off a nice glow.......
The file structure is no probs if u stick with a simple tree.......
it also supports 2x10 disc changers.............. thats ya 30 albums all loaded and ready 4 shufflin !!!!!!

I bought mine for £260 from interpart in High Wycombe...a changer is another 100... good value IMO

To the guy who fitted a tray to the lower single din slot ...... got any details , mine is still naked and pretty ugly :-(

GordonT

14-05-01, 10:02

Sure thing mate.... I Bought the tray from Half*rd
s (believe it or not), cost about £12.......
Took a bit of trimming on the inside of the dash so that both could be mounted behind but it looks really nice.
You get 3 different fronts for the tray too.

Gordon. T.

Rolec

14-05-01, 13:50

Sounds like the Kenwood thing comes highly rated...

Will either of you be able to make Milton Keynes for a mini-meet that John will be arranging, as i'd like to see/hear one before i buy.

Dean..

Branners

14-05-01, 16:56

just for info
http://www.riohome.com/products/riocar-pd.htm

Rolec

15-05-01, 09:05

To the guys who fitted the Kenwoods.

What outputs did you use - did you use the stock amp etc. ??

Dean..

GordonT

15-05-01, 10:17

Milton Keynes is a bit far for me, sorry (Up here in scotland).
I Have so far connected it using an ISO connector, however I  still  have some work to do on the amp and sub.
I have also changed the frot door speakers which is another story......

Gordon T.

Flipfinger

28-05-01, 10:09

In my current car (BMW, trying to get a Supra!) I fitted a Kenwood Z919 (the first CD-based MP3 player, American unit) and it was absolutely gorgeous - chrome, sounded fantastic and the MP3 playback was superb.

It cost me a packet - and then some more in IMPORT TAX, but I felt it was worth it.

Then I went to Leeds and my car got broken into, now I have a rather attractive broken centre column fan grille.

I don't know about the new Kenwoods, but I had to burn my CDs in a specific way (ISO) so the filenames show up on the display.  Best idea (for speed) is to have a basic directory structure with ONE level.

It played CD-RWs too - that was what the big selling point for me was.  Every week a new CD, and no wastage.

Thieving baptists......

matt

30-05-01, 22:10

Hey
Thanx 4 the tray tip............ 'kin Half*rds ?? No wonder I missed 'em......;-)

Milton Springsteen....... I'm based in Bucks , so if ya wanna check out the kenwood ........ post back. I check back weeklyish........... a'ight , sometimes longer ;-o

I connected mine usin the pre-outs only....... running thro' an alpine 4 channel , powerin ^5 1/2'' Coaxes up front(Kenwood) and 6 1/2 Infinity components in back..... i have a sub amp daisy chained from the Alpine driving a 10'' Sub in a made to measure ported box...... It sounds cool.........IMO
Although I used amps....... the head unit is rated a 47w per channel.........

l8r

Rolec

06-06-01, 09:23

Matt.

Picking up the Kenwood from interpart @ High Wycombe today :)

Looking forward to the fun of fitting it and sorting out the hole underneath....

I was thinking of panelling it off and fitting a boost gauge - anyone know the diameter of a gauge

Thanks

Dean..

Branners

06-06-01, 10:04

boost guages run from 49mm up to whatever you want them to be. Most commong sizes are 52mm and 60mm. Blitz do a blanking panel which has space for 1 gauge and 2 1/4 din units (turbo timers etc) for £18, or Toyota do a cubby hole unit which does fit, not sure which car it came from though. I think somebody said a Celica.

JB

Rolec

06-06-01, 16:40

The blitz thing sounds like the right bit of kit - Where do i get Blitz, is it from Racelogic ??

I believe the cubby hole thing was originally supposed to be an MR2 one, but didnt actually fit....

Branners

06-06-01, 17:07

yeah, they stock one that has a space for 1 guage and one that has space for 3 guages. Only problem is you have to have a 49mm boost guage which isnt exactly the biggest guage in the world, and when you are flat out in 3rd you tend not to spend time looking at the guage..!!

I think the fully electronic boost guage might fit in there, Demon Twits do one for about £120.

I still think the Toyota cubby hole is the one to go for, you can drop sunglasses, sweets, money, all sorts in there.

I have the blitz blanking plate and boost guage in my car by the way.

JB

matt

06-06-01, 22:27

nice1 Dean.......
r u gonna bypass the stock amp n wire direct?? ....... cos I was thinkin, when i took out the stock spkrs they were only rated @ 15 watts........ made me think the amp wasn't 2 powerful and was just used to combine output from the 2 stock units.........

could be wrong........ but the 6090 has 47WattsRMS from the head unit any way......... I doubt the toyota amp is that good

let me know how ya decide, ........ will ya let me know what ya do with the offendin hole ?????

l8r

DArby

09-06-01, 19:06

Matt.

Its in and its working :)

Sounds really good !!

Im no audiophile, so have just gone straight out into the stock amp etc. and sounds cool.

Will do its properly at some point - not this year though..

John..

The Dmask works ok - doesnt get stuck - also trip the fascia so i was able to get the cover on round the outside of the stereo.

Shall pick up the Blitz blank on Monday, and will be all done

Dean..

Dean..

Paul Booth

11-06-01, 22:16

OK, I know that the fact that I am re-fitting my Toyota stero unit, to keep my car visibly stock, damages my credibility somewhat.

Nevertheless, the fact that you can get reasonably sweet sounding speakers and improve the general sound quality inside the vehicle (for a price of course) is somewhat defeated by using what is after all, a compression technique for getting sound across a limited bandwidth media, i.e. MP3.

It never ceases to amaze me that people will spend over £1,000 on amps and speakers for the car and then stick an MP3 player on the front. Any system is only as good as its weakest link and, as a Rega Planet owner, I take that adage seriously.

Branners

12-06-01, 09:57

ahh, but it never ceases to amaze me that people spend £1000s on a stereo when all possible benefits from excellent sound quality are lost due to road and engine noise on a car that was never designed to be an audiophonic delight.

I would say that at 40mph you would struggle to tell the difference between an original CD and an MP3 recording, and I think Dean is like me, he looks for performance from a car and not for excellent sound quality. I used a £90 Aiwa head unit in my car for nearly 2 years, I didnt care about the quality I just needed some music while driving the car, I only changed it because it looked crap and so I put a JVC Kameleon black face unit in.

JB

Paul Booth

12-06-01, 10:38

OK, y'got me. I can't hear mine either, hence a stock unit going back.

I guess I don't understand the expense people go to with stereos in the car too......

.... nice brakes or nice sounds? Duh!

Rolec

13-06-01, 12:25

Johns right - i've had the unit it for a few days, and even whilst stationary i think it would be pretty hard to distiguish between MP3 and uncompressed audio.

And at 70 mile an hour with the window open and the HKS induction kit whooshing away, they could be farting in time to the music and i'd never know :biggrin:

I know MP3 will never please the real audio buffs, but myself, Matt and a couple of other people on this list are well happy with the units, plus the fact i get upto 16 albums on 1 CD, track names, artist etc., it does have benefits.

And of course it really cool to show people, because outside of the IT and heavy Internet users, nobody really knows what MP3 is..

Dean..

Paul Booth

13-06-01, 16:24

God damn!
Now you've given me an idea for a project, fitting an MP3 player in a stock head unit, i.e., replacing the standard guts.
As if I didn't have enough distractions.

Rich J

13-06-01, 19:57

Dean,

Does the MP3 unit you have load the whole track into memory, the main problem I am having is that the CD keeps jumping due to the uprated springs, shocks and anti-roll bars.:(

matt

13-06-01, 22:49

Hey
I think ya missin the point with mp3 ( although I can't tell the difference in sound quality on a 2k system with both mp3 & cd........... call me cloth ears!!)
The beauty of mp3 is the versatility ............. create ya own playlists of hours of ya fave toons......... download n burn 4 free........ (Napster might be dead but there are plenty more like it).........10 albums on one disc ...... CDRW capability ........... I like the format

Rolec

14-06-01, 08:19

Quote: from HardHead42 on 7:57 pm on June 13, 2001[br]Dean,

Does the MP3 unit you have load the whole track into memory, the main problem I am having is that the CD keeps jumping due to the uprated springs, shocks and anti-roll bars.:(

I've been running round the country lanes for the last few days with it and it hasn't jumped once yet !!

I'm now lowered with bilsteins and eibach's so it pretty bumpy :)

Considering that it is decoding the MP3 i would guess it must buffer it in someway and not be doing it directly on the fly ??

Dean..

Paul Booth

14-06-01, 09:35

All CD's buffer the data converting from bits to waves. What differs a car product / CD-Walkman from a household device is how much it buffers to absorb shocks. A typical CD-man buffers about 5 seconds of music but this is still no good for joggers etc.

An ICE CD should be able to cope with anything you can put a car through. I have tried to hassle the multi-changer units in mine and my wife's cars (not the Slurpa) by giving them 10-20 seconds of rough track and failed in both cases.

If a unit is jumping it sounds more like a dirty head or scratched lens than anything to do with ride quality (which may simply be exposing the multiple read attempts already happening).

MP3 players, given that MP3 data already has a gresater multiplier ratio to the original material, will probably effectively buffer 30+ seconds of audio during payback. Some nasty players may use that ratio to reduce the amount of buffer memory they build in, then you've got a problem that you're only actually physically buffer 1-2 seconds of digital data, relying on the uncompression process to create the 10+ seconds of music data.
This won't stack up to scrutiny as if you lose 1-3 seconds of digital data (which isn't difficult) then the uncompression codec has nothing to work with.

I'd first be cleaning my head (CD, before anyone says it) with some industrial alcohol and if that fails, looking for a better MP3 player (sorry).

Rich J

14-06-01, 18:34

Quote: from Paul Booth on 9:35 am on June 14, 2001[br]I'd first be cleaning my head (CD, before anyone says it) with some industrial alcohol and if that fails, looking for a better MP3 player (sorry).

I've got a standard Toyota head unit, not need to apologies. :)

Paul Booth

14-06-01, 18:43

Interesting. My stock import head is with a company to determine its problem. Turns out it needs a new lens at £94.
Coincidence or poor design? I'm inclined to think there's a design fault, otherwise known as a 'characteristic' in dealer-speak.

Branners

15-06-01, 10:01

Looks like a new MP3 standard is being released, MP3 Pro. Backwardly compatible obviously, but existing MP3 players will struggle to play the MP3 Pro file..

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/19707.html

JB

Paul Booth

15-06-01, 11:17

Word of caution on MP3. Microsoft are looking to introduce a new standard in Windows XP which they hope will replace MP3. The integrated media player will deliberately have limited MP3 support.
The idea is that the new standard will support copyright protection solutions and prevent sites like Napster from being able to do their thing.

Of course with solutions such as Real, Media Jukebox, etc. they don't stand a cat in Hell, but watch changing MP3 standards for possible gotchas down-stream.

Rolec

15-06-01, 12:13

I dont think it will be a major problem.

To date i've been encoding my own CD's and will continue to do so as MP3, and i'm sure it wont take long for people to create Pro to standard convertors.

Dean..

Digsy

18-08-01, 13:50

Gents,

I spent an enjoyable afternoon at my local ICE emporium today and was mightily impressed with the Kenwood KDC-MP6090R. I think I'm gonna have one!

I did read one review of this unit in T3 magazine that said it did not stack up very well against the competition but having read the thread, none of you guys seem to be too bothered about its supposed shortcoming (which was an overlong seek time for the tracks, btw).

The dealer told me that the unit did not come with any ripping or ecoding software, which surprised me but is of no consequence because I already have a CD-RW kit, CD ripping software, and MP3 encoder.

I was particularly impressed with the brochure claims that it can read not only CD-RWs but also unfinalised discs, so you can effectively keep adding tracks to the CD-RW until it is full. Has anyone tried this capability
out?

Purchasing the unit also makes more sense for me because we can keep "his n her's" discs in the car. I listen to most of my music indoors so a multichanger (as well as being more expensive) would just keep getting loaded and unloaded all the time, anyway. What surprised me most was that at £349 (free fitting) it was about £20 cheper than the most comparible head unit / multichanger combination.

Just to compare notes with other anoraks, I would be using the following hardware / software.

TEAC CD-W54E RD-RW drive
Adaptec Easy CD Creator (or direct CD) burning software
CDDAE 99 CD ripper (direct digital copier)
RazorLAME MP3 encoder

Any suggestions / insights about how to rip / encode / burn music to best suit the Kenwood unit would be most welcome. I would be particularly interested to know how it knows where an "album" starts and ends. Do you have to make M3U files like you might for a PC-based MP3 player?

Paul Booth

18-08-01, 20:57

Darren,

If I was copying tracks from CDs for reproduction as MP3 files, which of course I'm not because that might be considered infringement of copyright, I'd definitely be using MediaJukebox Plus V 7 or later (if there is one later).

This allows you to read any media files, CD ROMs, AVI, MP3, etc. and organise them as a media library. You can create playlists by artist, album, music style, user preference, etc. and once you have a playlist you like and have used the play length function to ensure you're not over running your target device, it will then create a CD ROM for you, or a set of MP3 files.

That's if I was doing that of course.

BTW, you can download Media Jukebox Plus from all good MP3 ripping sites.

Your CR-RW drive is not relevant and the Adaptec software is the easiest to use.

Oh yes, if you insert a music CD into your CD drive and make sure you are connected to the web when you do it, Media Jukebox will go to a specific site and return with the album/track names filled in; not just track #1, etc.

DArby

19-08-01, 08:53

I use MusicMatch 6.1 - lovely bit of software - here's the points i've found useful.

It has a great CDDB  connection, so all CD's are correctly labeled.

Make sure you use the facility to add the track number to the file title, otherwise when you go to burn them they're not in the same order as the original.

I have both finalised, unfinalised, and multisession, and all work fine.

The seek between tracks is not a problem, when you first insert the CD it does a file check which can take a upto about 15secs when you have quite deep file trees.

I have mine like this.

Artist Directory - CD Directory - CD Tracks, which isn't too bad, but when you have 15 albums on the one CD, it can, as i say take upto 15/20secs to seek them all.

It scrolls at the MP3 tags for each track, and can show the album directory name.

All in all well cool !!

Dean..

Paul Booth

19-08-01, 09:26

I like Media Jukebox because it has better CODECs (better envelope shaping) and the reproduction through the Cambridge Systems speaker system on my PC is way better with MJB.

I also use it as my default AVI player too as it handles DV format, MPEG-1, MPEG-2, etc. files and will drive the CD-RW direct.

It's CDDB function has only let me down once and I have nGb of material on my hard drive. It will keep tracks in sequence without the track label.

It will also find MP3 files on the web plus a load of other crap which I've never used.

Horses for courses.

Digsy

19-08-01, 12:04

Dean,

It sounds like unless you force the tracks into a specific order by numbering them or adding a number to the start of the filename, they will play in "alphabetical" order. Is that correct?

If the Kenwood unit could read M3U files (MP3 playlist files) that particular problem (not really a major problem) could be circumvented...

Paul,

What is the licensing for Media Jukebox? Can you suggest a good URL for me to download it from? I used to use TUCOWS but I cannot get on with their "new look" site. :-(

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

Paul Booth

19-08-01, 12:13

http://www.musicex.com/mediajukebox/download.html

Don't remember the licensing issues, sorry. Anything less than £30 and I use regularly, I just pay and get it over with.

BTW, I just used it's on-line upgrade to get V 7.1. That was free.

Rolec

20-08-01, 08:29

Quote: from Darren Blake on 12:04 pm on Aug. 19, 2001[br]Dean,

It sounds like unless you force the tracks into a specific order by numbering them or adding a number to the start of the filename, they will play in "alphabetical" order. Is that correct?

If the Kenwood unit could read M3U files (MP3 playlist files) that particular problem (not really a major problem) could be circumvented...

Yep thats correct, one of the nice things with MusicMatch is that it is one of its settings to append the track number to the file name automatically.

Dean..

Digsy

20-08-01, 08:34

I was doing some surfing last night and stumbled across the Kenwood MP3 player for only £262.50 (£80 cheaper than my local shop) see:

http://www.incarexpress.co.uk/focus.php3?partno=KDCMP6090R

Anyone ever dealt with these guys??? Sounds too good to be true!

Rolec

20-08-01, 15:38

I think i paid - 270-280 from a shop in High Wycombe..

Cant remember the name, but Matt lives there, he goes his from them, and passed me their details.

Ohh - no i lied - here are the details.

Interpart - 01494-436191

Ask for Richard, tell him you were given his name by the Supra owners Matt and Dean.

Hope it helps...

Dean.

Flipfinger

20-08-01, 16:35

Like I mentioned in another post (that no bugger has replied to :( ) I got one of those clever Creative Labs DAX Jukebox things (the size of a CD walkman but with a 6Gb laptop hard disk inside) and I'm going to be hooking that up to the head unit.

Simply disconnect and take it with me - far better security (once bitten, twice shy etc).

Digsy

20-08-01, 16:44

Cheers Dean,

I went to the Kenwood website today and downloaded the entire manual for the MP6090R. How handy was that!? I've been flicking through it today. Nice to get a feel for how the system works before you actually have to buy it...

I could really use some pointers on what to expect when I get around to fitting the system (hence my several recent posts in the ICE forum). I've been reading the notes on Pete Betts' website about removing the dash - Christ - is it really that involved, and do you have to take the WHOLE dash out just to remove the radio??? I hope not!

If anyone has recently changed their ICE and still has it all fresh in their mind I would love to clash heads with them. I don't want to get my whole dash stripped out and then find I need to drive to Halfords to get a missing part!

Paul Booth

20-08-01, 17:43

6 screws and you can remove the part you need to access the ICE.
However, you do have to remove about 75% of the dashboard, but it's a doddle, really. It all just snaps in.
What you have to watch for most of all is breaking off the snap-in legs.

DArby

20-08-01, 18:54

The Dash removal is in fact ever so easy.

The most important thing as Pete points out - DO NOT put the ignition on with the top part of the dash out, which houses the airbag light, otherwise it'll stay on !!

There are about 5 screws across the top of the dash, once these are removed the top housing comes down, unplug the harnesses - no worries about knowing which is which as they are all unique.

Pull the cover from around the dials, pull the cover from around the gearstick, then just pull the cover from around the stereo and aircon buttons etc. - disconnect all harnesses, again all unique, and its away !!

Easy as that, after taking mine out about 10 times, it now goes in about 60secs flat :)

Stereo fitting :-

Four screws to remove the entire stereo cage - worth disconnecting the aerial relay box, as this makes it hard to get out - unplug the stereo harness - previous to all of this you should have purchased a suitable harness for a Supra from Halfords, JB has one he might sell you.

Now down the left inside the centre console where you removed the stereo you should find the stereo harness dissapears into another connector, disconnect it from this and your Halfords harness will now fit directly into that.

Remove stereo from Cage - sell to Paul Booth for a massive amount of money :) - fit the Kenwood in the top half.

This is where it gets fun - In the correctly located position you will find you cannot fit the Kenwood surround as it fouls the dash -  no problem cut the dash !! - there is a lip around the stereo apperture (v.thin plastic), just match it up to the stereo and trim it off, leaving the rest of the trim in place - its very simple, no chance of damage to the dash. This now allows the stereo to sit, as my picture resplendent with trim. Now put it all back together, make sure the harness to the airbag is connected, and power that baby up.

Not being a purist I manage quite admirably with the stock amp etc. - It doesnt matter at 150mph :biggrin:

To fit the blank as I did, it requires the blank to be mounted in an odd position, not as it should do, plus cutting the Kenwood trim (scarey).

Hope it helps - I'm ready to be b*llocked if i got anything wrong :)

Dean..

Digsy

21-08-01, 08:58

Quote: from DArby on 6:54 pm on Aug. 20, 2001[br]Remove stereo from Cage - sell to Paul Booth for a massive amount of money :)

I *don't* think Paul would want my stereo. It looks like its been ripped out of a 15 year old's bedroom. A silver monster of a double-DIN thing with more flashing lights that the Starship Enterprise. No anti-theft devices at all, and very conspicuous - hence I want to change it.

Thanks VERY much for the information. It sounds a lot like fitting my stereo to my old MR2 - that didn't just "drop in" either (and that was a UK spec car with a single DIN slot). To be honest I'm a bit scared to trim the dash but I guess I'll weigh it up properly when I get the car.

Looking at your pictures, it looks like the visible part of the dash is untouched but the entire top edge of the Kenwood surround has gone. Is this right? Eeek!

Thanks again.

(Edited by Darren Blake at 9:29 am on Aug. 21, 2001)