View Full Version : oh cr&p :(
Just got back form the NW meet and on the way home hitting high speeds something just bad happened. The car was running rough all the way home and was shacking and idleing irracticly when i parked up :(
Looked under the bonnet and found this:
gutted :( - any ideas?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/Matt_H/DSCN0481.jpg
Holy black stuff batman. :blink: I'm guessing its not blowing from a knackered filler cap?
supra matt
09-04-07, 22:40
how far did you drive it running ruff? and did the oil light come on ?
Holy black stuff batman. :blink: I'm guessing its not blowing from a knackered filler cap?
no, im sure the filler cap is fine (i think)
how far did you drive it running ruff? and did the oil light come on ?
About 2 miles i think. No the oil light didnt come on from memory
supra matt
09-04-07, 22:45
is there any oil leaking from under the car ? and have you checked the dip stick to see how much you lost?
It does look like its come from the oil fller cap, and not sure what the noise was, but could it be you have just lost all oil pressure
markjodrell
09-04-07, 22:51
If its come out of the filler cap there must have been some pressure there which is not right.......piston ring maybe??
is there any oil leaking from under the car ? and have you checked the dip stick to see how much you lost?
No i pretty much just came in cos its dark. ive had a small oil leak for a while around the mid section of the car, its booked in for turbofit to look at it on the 23rd of this month but im not sure how im gona get it there now if ive got a big problem :(
It does look like its come from the oil fller cap, and not sure what the noise was, but could it be you have just lost all oil pressure
I hope so, would lack of oil pressure make it run so rough?!
If its come out of the filler cap there must have been some pressure there which is not right.......piston ring maybe??
oh sh*t that sounds expensive :(
oh boy Matt, that's not good mate :(
Mike
Christ Matt! I was only with you 40 mins ago....:rolleyes:
How can you break your car in such a short space of time.
H.
Christ Matt! I was only with you 40 mins ago....:rolleyes:
How can you break your car in such a short space of time.
H.
easy it seems! :(
would a blocked pcv valve cause this? no where to release the crank case pressure so it blows it out the cap??
just a thought (and a cheap fix)
Edit: it's a quick check as it just pops out the rubber seal, you should be able to blow through it one way but not the other.
this should help
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g151/combijon/h4.jpg
markjodrell
09-04-07, 22:58
oh sh*t that sounds expensive :(
why I say that Matt is because last week I was messing under my bonnet and pulled the oil capoff with the engine running, put my hand over the opening and reved up , there was no pressure at all. I was always led to belive that if there is pressure there that it was due to it passing the pistons i.e a ring gone possibly.That is if thats where your oil has indeed come from.
having said that Im NOT a mechanic , thats just what i have been told , I should seek professional advice asap mate.
Mate, seriously, when we followed you on the way home there was a horrible burning smell in my car. Thought it was something on fire under my bonnet but it cleared up when you turned off at your junction! You were caining it though ;-) i was up to 135 leptons and you were disappearing into the distance! Hope it's nothing too serious...
Are you missing a hose, see attached pic, or has this been done on purpose?
Mate, seriously, when we followed you on the way home there was a horrible burning smell in my car. Thought it was something on fire under my bonnet but it cleared up when you turned off at your junction! You were caining it though ;-) i was up to 135 leptons and you were disappearing into the distance! Hope it's nothing too serious...
i was at least at 160 leptons when it happened, i had a bad smell in my car too :(
Are you missing a hose, see attached pic, or has this been done on purpose?
really?!?! which hose is that? anybody got a pic to compare to??!
markjodrell
09-04-07, 23:04
i was at least at 160 leptons when it happened, i had a bad smell in my car too :(
160 leptons, did your passenger shit themselves :D
160 leptons, did your passenger shit themselves :D
no passenger mate, just me shitting myself!
Supradoopa
09-04-07, 23:06
Have a look at the area around the oil it seems to be mostly round your filler cap
Pic added.
im not sure what your looking at mate, i cant see the difference apart from my hose seems to be sort of metalic where as yours seem to be a rubber one? is that what your looking at?
Ye, wasn't sure if it was the metal stub the hose attaches to, it's not very clear. If there is a hose still attached then it's ok, was not sure if it might have popped off.
Ye, wasn't sure if it was the metal stub the hose attaches to, it's not very clear. If there is a hose still attached then it's ok, was not sure if it might have popped off.
i'll hjave a closer look tommorrow, ta for that tho ;)
markjodrell
09-04-07, 23:14
This is when you wished Chris Wilson was your next door neighbour, (and best buddy :D )
no passenger mate, just me shitting myself!
That makes three of us because my passenger was shitting himself when my car smelt like it was on fire at 140 leptons!!. Come to think of it, it did smell like burning oil! :blink:
Looks like high oil pressure to me.
If it were me I'd clean it up, look carefully for anyother visible problems, check levels, then start it up to see how it sounds, bring to running temp and check to see if it loses again (from where) or if oil pressure lights etc come on.
Don't blame me if it dies though ;)
:yeahthat:
I really like it when I post something and someone else whose technical skills I admire agrees with me. :D
you just have to pray tonight you!;) :innocent:
garetheves
09-04-07, 23:54
Gutted matt. If theres anything i can do let me know bud.
Are you back home alreay Tom? That was quick!.. Then again, i've seen how you drive your car now! :-D Must admit it sounded awesome when you passed me on the M6.. Think i'll be tempted to get an Aristo in the future! :-) thanks for making the trip down to see us :-)
Just got back form the NW meet and on the way home hitting high speeds something just bad happened. The car was running rough all the way home and was shacking and idleing irracticly when i parked up
Ooo, that picture looks exactly like my engine bay when I melted a piston on my white TT, oil everywhere out of the filler cap.
Does the engine seem like it's running on 5 (or less) cylinders?
You'll want to do a compression test Matt. Does you have a comp test gauge?
Good luck mate.
ps,
What does Shacking mean?
Are you back home alreay Tom? That was quick!.. Then again, i've seen how you drive your car now! :-D Must admit it sounded awesome when you passed me on the M6.. Think i'll be tempted to get an Aristo in the future! :-) thanks for making the trip down to see us :-)
Yep touched about 160 leptons myself once or twice. Had to stop to refil but worth it. Roads were empty as can be:d
really?!?! which hose is that? anybody got a pic to compare to??!
Dont worry mate, there is a hose there. I zoomed in. ;)
I'm sure if it reached 160 lepons, it managed it on more than 5 pistons(only my opion)
letmeshowyou
10-04-07, 07:35
it might have needed more than 5 to get there. What happened once it got there is another matter! Looks like it's from the filler cap to me but I like the idea of checking the pcv.
it might have needed more than 5 to get there. What happened once it got there is another matter!
Never thought of that:)
mikeyb10supra
10-04-07, 09:38
There could be a few things causing this. The first thing I would check is the crankcase ventilation system. ensure the pipework is free flowing and not obstructed by the resultant effluent of crankcase vapors. Check the other crankcase vent lines to ensure they are not obstructed either. If all the vent lines checkout okay, then you may be experiencing blowby due to excessively worn piston rings.
I'm guessing piston rings or a crack in the piston itself. For that much pressure to build up your breather system will have to be totally overcome. By all means try pulling off the WOT (exhaust side) and part throttle (intake side) hoses and check that they are clear. You will probably find they are full of oil, together with most of your intake system and intercooler. If not I'd be very surprised.
A blocked PCV will only caise a problem at part throttle because it will remove the vacuum source. However a PCV that fails stuck open might cause the problem you are seeing because it will let boost pressure leak from the plenum into the crankcase. Whip it out and blow through it in both directions. It should effectively work like a one-way valve.
You might want to simply check the seal on the oil filler cap. A leaky engine can sometimes run rough because you are making it easier for the engine to suck air into the intake. On some engines this can go unmetered. I dont think this will be the case for you, however, because the speed/density air measuring system should catch it, plus the PCV itself should limt the amount of air allowd intot he plenum through the breather system.
The fact that the car was also running rough makes me think its a bigger problem, though.
cheers for the advice guys,
Im gona have a look at it today but i have no idea what im looking for really :(
im so gutted :(
Do the sensible thing and get it low loaded to Turbofit when you're booked in Matt. It looks very messy and it's best to leave it to them IMHO
letmeshowyou
10-04-07, 12:27
:yeahthat:
Best bit of advice yet Guru.
Don't start her back up Matt, leave it mate, get it trailored to Turbofit and let them work their magic ;)
Worth joining the AA, they will trailor it there for you:)
Worth joining the AA, they will trailor it there for you:)
I don't think the AA will trailor it 'anywhere' matey.
"Hi Mr AA Man, I live in Scotland with about 200 local garages nearby but would be grateful if you could take me to Chris Wilsons house in Shropshire" :p
It's typically a small radius from the breakdown point.
EDIT; I stand correct mate - apologies:
"Relay - If, following a breakdown at the roadside, we can't arrange a prompt repair, we'll transport you, your car and up to seven passengers home, or to any mainland UK destination of your choice".
:search: How have you got on Matt ? need any help mate ?
Cheers
Ian
Hi again guys, kinda started her back up at lunch. shed loads and i mean shed loads of smoke out of the exhaust. sounds really rough, irratic idleing and sounds probably altough i have never heard it before like its runningon 5 cylinders.
Im with the AA. Should i ring them and see what they can do or how much do you think it would cost to hire a trailer as my dad has a 4x4?!
Ta
A very upset matt!
:search: How have you got on Matt ? need any help mate ?
Cheers
Ian
could do with a few miracles mate!
"Relay - If, following a breakdown at the roadside, we can't arrange a prompt repair, we'll transport you, your car and up to seven passengers home, or to any mainland UK destination of your choice".
Thats ace,
Do you think i should get my car to a certain location and then call them?!
Hi again guys, kinda started her back up at lunch. shed loads and i mean shed loads of smoke out of the exhaust. sounds really rough, erratic idling and sounds probably although i have never heard it before like its running on 5 cylinders.
Yep....It's fooked. :(
Try yell.com for trailer hire in your area? The AA will probably sting you, but at least you're in safe hands of a pro transporter.
Maybe try local recovery firms?
Hi again guys, kinda started her back up at lunch. shed loads and i mean shed loads of smoke out of the exhaust. sounds really rough, irratic idleing and sounds probably altough i have never heard it before like its runningon 5 cylinders.
Im with the AA. Should i ring them and see what they can do or how much do you think it would cost to hire a trailer as my dad has a 4x4?!
Ta
A very upset matt!
Dam really sorry to hear that Matt, sounds like you have done a piston:(
:( gutted Matt, was this after our little run?
hope it gets resolved soon mate, gis a shout if i can help at all
could do with a few miracles mate!
Sorry matey run out of Miracles there on order tho :innocent:
As jamieP said sounds like you "done" a piston matey ...looks like Turbo fit are going to be doing a little more work than you expected :(
Trailer hire might be the cheapest option matey unless someone knows of a friendly garage with one :search:
Cheers
Ian
Dam really sorry to hear that Matt, sounds like you have done a piston:(
i think so too.
Just emailed turbofit see if they can take my car in a little earlier than originally booked. Hopefully they will be able to sort me out.
:( gutted Matt, was this after our little run?
hope it gets resolved soon mate, gis a shout if i can help at all
Cheers Wez,
No it was fine after our run, it was when i was hitting like 160+ it happened on the way home with Dr Doom :(
Sorry matey run out of Miracles there on order tho :innocent:
As jamieP said sounds like you "done" a piston matey ...looks like Turbo fit are going to be doing a little more work than you expected :(
Trailer hire might be the cheapest option matey unless someone knows of a friendly garage with one :search:
Cheers
Ian
Come to think of it i actually know someone who knows someone with a trailer, just need to nudge a few shoulders!!
Anyone got any idea of the sort of cost im looking at if it is a piston?!
i think so too.
Just emailed turbofit see if they can take my car in a little earlier than originally booked. Hopefully they will be able to sort me out.
I'm heading there too matey to get mine sorted before the Dragonball else I'm out! Only got about 4 weeks left and there could be more problems than first expected........as always!:(
Good luck buddy.
i think so too.
Just emailed turbofit see if they can take my car in a little earlier than originally booked. Hopefully they will be able to sort me out.
If it is a piston gone i just hope it aint damaged the block, dont start it again.
Anyone got any idea of the sort of cost im looking at if it is a piston?!
Either a 2nd hand engine swapped in or a strip, rebore, and rebuild. The first option is cheaper but potentially risky because of the engine's history. The second option will, if built correctly, give you a sweet engine, but costs more and takes longer and you have to really trust the engine builder.
Budget about £2500 for the first option including labour, Maybe £3500 for option 2. Not great I know but I'm not going to sugar coat it. If you get it done for less you can breathe a sigh of relief :)
-Ian
What a nightmare for you Matt :(
If it is a piston gone i just hope it aint damaged the block, dont start it again.
:yeahthat:
It's not going to be cheap, If you're planning on keeping the stock twins it might be more financially viable to get a new short block (or reconned 2nd hand one) and have TF fit that, rather than try and rebuild your one.
There may be another fault with the car that has caused this, so repairing the damage might not mean the initial problem is solved. (Thinking of Jakes fpr hose here, for example).
Either a 2nd hand engine swapped in or a strip, rebore, and rebuild. The first option is cheaper but potentially risky because of the engine's history. The second option will, if built correctly, give you a sweet engine, but costs more and takes longer and you have to really trust the engine builder.
Budget about £2500 for the first option including labour, Maybe £3500 for option 2. Not great I know but I'm not going to sugar coat it. If you get it done for less you can breathe a sigh of relief :)
-Ian
:faint: :faint: :faint: :faint: :faint: well if worse comes to the worse then i suppose it will have to be an engine build but that means digging into my savings :(
May be worth buying a new bottom end from toyota, they need stripping and cleaning, iirc steve manley does them for about £1700 then you have fitting on top, before you panic though lets see what greg says;)
Edit, homer beat me to it.
If its a rebuild.... which seems to be the general view you could always consider building a really strong engine with the view that your going to go single in the future.
Sorry to hear of this though, were you down for the dragon ball?
With regards to the AA, they came and collected the car from home(Swindon), and took it to Abbey motorsport for me. I was speaking to Mr AA, and he was saying its quite common for him to pick up cars and take them a couple of hundred miles to be fixed. They have trailered the car twice for me now without a problem, excellent company well worth the money each year. I hope you get it sorted soon:)
You have savings Matt? That's a good thing mate as I just have credit cards. Hold out for the TF verdict on your engine first buddy and certainly don't start her again!
Might be cheaper to buy another TT and strip that for parts and sell the others to fund the engine project if you can get one in reasonable nic! I was thinking this when Chris was telling me about the trade prices many TTs are at at the moment :(
Chris Wilson
10-04-07, 17:01
Looks like the intake cam front oil seal has failed or blown out. Usually caused by excess crankcase pressure. That in turn is usually caused by piston / ring damage due to detonation. Det is caused by excess boost or a bad map for the given boost. What's the engine spec?
Do you have any idea at all (doubtful given the speed and concentration on the road) what you were boosting to at that speed and we're you flat out all the way to 160?
Do you have a peak recall on a boost gauge and/or egt gauge? Any idea about afr's - do you have a wideband system fitted?
As Chris said - what's the general spec?
Looks like the intake cam front oil seal has failed or blown out. Usually caused by excess crankcase pressure. That in turn is usually caused by piston / ring damage due to detonation. Det is caused by excess boost or a bad map for the given boost. What's the engine spec?
Hybrid turbos and double decat with a 1.2 bar restrictor ring but at those really high speeds i often see 1.4 bar of boost or possibly more?
Do you have any idea at all (doubtful given the speed and concentration on the road) what you were boosting to at that speed and we're you flat out all the way to 160?
Do you have a peak recall on a boost gauge and/or egt gauge? Any idea about afr's - do you have a wideband system fitted?
As Chris said - what's the general spec?
i did have a boost gauge but Chris took that off when my car went in for work with him, thats when i had my double de-cat and restrictor ring fitted at the same time
You have savings Matt? That's a good thing mate as I just have credit cards. Hold out for the TF verdict on your engine first buddy and certainly don't start her again!
Might be cheaper to buy another TT and strip that for parts and sell the others to fund the engine project if you can get one in reasonable nic! I was thinking this when Chris was telling me about the trade prices many TTs are at at the moment :(
yeah i have savings but there not for my car, deposit on my next house but prob have to dip in now
Hybrid turbos and double decat with a 1.2 bar restrictor ring but at those really high speeds i often see 1.4 bar of boost or possibly more?
Hybrids at 1.4bar+ on standard fuelling. Could it have run too lean then as Chris suggests causing det?
At 1.4 bar on stock Jap 440's your looking at maxing the fuelling big time. Even at 1.2 it will be 100% duty....
the worst thing is i was gona have turbofit lob some 550's in on the 23rd....... why of why didnt i just leave my foot off until the whole job had been done.
the worst thing is i was gona have turbofit lob some 550's in on the 23rd....... why of why didnt i just leave my foot off until the whole job had been done.
Poor guy. I have been there and done it mate :( Feel for you. I lost me car for about 8 months because of it!
supra matt
10-04-07, 22:01
nasty mate your best off getting a second hand engine for £1200 theres some on ebay or speak to jezzababe.
well im not gona commit to a new engine just yet! see what turbo fit say. if worse comes to the worse and its an engine build then i'll probably go that route
letmeshowyou
10-04-07, 23:35
At 1.4 bar on stock Jap 440's your looking at maxing the fuelling big time. Even at 1.2 it will be 100% duty...
and thats on stock turbo's. Hybrids could be flowing alot more in theory. I'm guessing it would have been very lean at that point!
Oh, poo!. Gutted for you Matt. Hope its not as bad as you think?
100% duty does not necessarily mean lean. I've seen 1.3bar and fuelling never going leaner than 11.5:1 on 440's - this was however on a RR so things were a lot more controlled.
It's a bit of a moot point as this was 1.4bar for a long period of time so combustion chamber temps would have been very very high - that's a serious thermal strain on the engine and you never want a leanish condition in that situation.
At those kind of loads the fuelling from the 440's was almost certainly inadequate - damn shame and I hope it's not too expensive to fix.
letmeshowyou
11-04-07, 08:08
dandan was that on hybrids or stock turbo's?
They are not stock turbos but as for how hybridized they are - I don't know.
I need to try to ID them with Turbo Technics to be sure, all I know is that they're JDM turbos with steel internals....
Any news yet Matt on what it was?
Gaz Walker
17-04-07, 17:17
Sorry to hear this Matt, missed this first time round. Hope its not too expensive :(
Gaz.
Any update on this yet Matt?
Mike
garetheves
08-05-07, 20:48
Last i heard Turbo fit have found a lack of compression in one of the chambers so it looks like the rings or something.
I heard something today that I hope Matt is going to dispell :taped:
Mike
Come on don't be shy its like chinese whispers in here :d
garetheves
08-05-07, 22:19
I heard something today that I hope Matt is going to dispell :taped:
Mike
Hes got crabs??
Fingers crossed for Matt. So hope it works out OK and it's just a blown cam seal or something.
Chris Wilson
09-05-07, 17:19
Where's this thing about factory short engines needing stripping and cleaning come from? Sounds very odd, genuine factory short motors are usually taken off the normal production line.
hi chaps, interenets been playing up so only just managed to get online! been having withdrawal symptons!!
Bad news im afraid :( melton piston it is and im told its bad!
NO.2 cylinder is the culprit.
THe other cylinders have 159/160 compression tho which im told is really good. Im really really hopeing that the block isnt damaged and then can jsut get another piston in there.
Fingers crossed guys. Knight Racer on the 11th June now!!
Chris Wilson
09-05-07, 17:36
Endoscope it, not worth pulling the head if the block is scrap.
ardasaliah
09-05-07, 18:58
Thats ace,
Do you think i should get my car to a certain location and then call them?!
Just get a mate whos got membership with the AA to turn up at your house. Let him say the cars his- remeber the members covered not the car--- and he wants it taken to CW. easy as that. I did this a few times and it works !!
Just get a mate whos got membership with the AA to turn up at your house. Let him say the cars his- remeber the members covered not the car--- and he wants it taken to CW. easy as that. I did this a few times and it works !!
His car is already at a garage being looked at/repaired.
vBulletin® v3.7.4, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.