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How well should my car handle during "spirited" driving?


DaveK
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Since my car now seems to be handling fine (since Mark fixed the bouncy rear end), yesterday I decided to take it down my local twisty road for the first time since owning it.

 

Now - generally, the car handles fine now under normal driving. Corners well, happy in a staight line under acceleration / speed etc.

 

However - after two bends, I gave up my spirited driving and returned to a "normal" drive. I found the back was very unsettled / very twitchy when I braked hard, and during the actual corner the steering felt very vague - no feedback at all.

 

This is not something I plan to "fix" - the car handles fine (now) for the way I actually use it - yesterday was more idle curiosity. But I was surprised at just how unhappy / unsettled the car felt.

 

I'm aware that I could add aftermarket brakes, suspension etc. etc. and I'm sure things would improve. However - I'm more interested in how well a stock car should handle on a twisty road (assuming anybody else has actually got a stock car!).

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I find that mine on the optional (I think) yellow Bilsteins stock springs and stock wheels/tyre sizes handles a lot better than the feedback through the wheel would have you believe.

 

I think that one of the criticisms of the Supra from launch was the vagueness of the steering.

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However - after two bends, I gave up my spirited driving and returned to a "normal" drive. I found the back was very unsettled / very twitchy when I braked hard, and during the actual corner the steering felt very vague - no feedback at all.

 

This is not something I plan to "fix" - the car handles fine (now) for the way I actually use it - yesterday was more idle curiosity. But I was surprised at just how unhappy / unsettled the car felt.

 

 

I think steering vagueness and lack of feedback is a trait of supra's, its not the best............however i don't notice any vagueness or being unsettled in the rear apart from on really bumpy stretches......but then i've hardly had a wide range of sports cars with which to directly compare.........

 

On the smooth tarmac at brands it was solid as a rock on braking and 'in corner'

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I think that one of the criticisms of the Supra from launch was the vagueness of the steering.

 

:yeahthat:

 

Really bugged me the first few times I drove a supra, alsmost put me off completely infact, my past one however had a lot more 'feel' than others I had driven, probably down to the ride height and spring settings. I have read though than on the later models, (probably with reas) that the steering was significantly better, just need to drive one and see :D if it is then perfect!

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:yeahthat:

 

Really bugged me the first few times I drove a supra, alsmost put me off completely infact, my past one however had a lot more 'feel' than others I had driven, probably down to the ride height and spring settings. I have read though than on the later models, (probably with reas) that the steering was significantly better, just need to drive one and see :D if it is then perfect!

 

How late? Mine is a 97 facelift.

 

The steering feel didn't come as a big surprise, since it is noticeably light anyway and I already felt it was quite vague. However, the twitchy back end under heavy braking caught me out - particularly since I'm used to a car with an engine in the back, and I would expect that to suffer from the problem more. I guess perhaps my stock suspension is a little too soft for that kind of driving.

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An untired, bone stock TT was one of the best handling big sports coupes of its era. I find, in 99% of cases, bad handling is caused by aftermarket wheels and tyres, or bad aftermarket suspension. Modding to improve the handling is tricky, but perfectly possible. Toyota got an excellent compromise from the start.

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An untired, bone stock TT was one of the best handling big sports coupes of its era. I find, in 99% of cases, bad handling is caused by aftermarket wheels and tyres, or bad aftermarket suspension. Modding to improve the handling is tricky, but perfectly possible. Toyota got an excellent compromise from the start.

 

I'm not sure those problems apply to mine. I have stock wheels, stock suspension (including two new rear shocks). It's possible the tyres could do with a top up of air - and I'm not a fan of conti's (they were on it when I bought the car). And of course, mine is an NA not a TT.

 

I guess "untired" might be part of the problem though - it is 10 years old and apart from the new rear shocks and one control arm, I don't know how old / tired the rest of the suspension etc. is.

 

I think "big sports coupe" is probably a significant factor as well - I'm comparing it to something smaller and lighter.

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Being an N/A it should handle better than the much heavier TT models :) I have found both the N/A and TT quite sensitive to tyre design. Maybe invest in some Goodyear F1 tyres if you want a proven good all round road tyre? For sure, make sure the pressures are correct, and have the geo checked properly. It'll never handle like a FWD car (thank God) so if that's a reference you may have to re assess the definition of good handling V terminal understeer ;)

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Being an N/A it should handle better than the much heavier TT models :) I have found both the N/A and TT quite sensitive to tyre design. Maybe invest in some Goodyear F1 tyres if you want a proven good all round road tyre? For sure, make sure the pressures are correct, and have the geo checked properly. It'll never handle like a FWD car (thank God) so if that's a reference you may have to re assess the definition of good handling V terminal understeer ;)

 

The reference is 4WD 911 (which actually does have a reputation for understeer, but I've never found it a problem).

 

When the tyres need replacing I'll probably go for Bridgestone SO2's - always been very happy with them on the other car. Geometry was done not that long ago.

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Thank god for this thread. I was beginining to think it was just me!!:rolleyes: I have not been impressed with the steering of my Supe at higher speeds at all. I do plan having the supsension checked and the steering bushes but from the sound of it, it is just the vague handling.

 

I feel a lot more confident driving my Mondeo or Vicki's BMW at speed that the Supe. There is also a massive difference in weight too, so as I throw it into a bend I do worry about handling!!

 

Generally the car drives great but I expected more when I put my foot down on a twisty stretch!!:innocent:

 

H.

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Chris,

 

What tyre pressures would you go for assuming stock 17" wheels, stock Bilstein suspension and the car being used as a daily driver but with the emphasis on handling over top speed.

 

I'm currently on 36 front, 34 rear. Any good?

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Being an N/A it should handle better than the much heavier TT models :) I have found both the N/A and TT quite sensitive to tyre design. Maybe invest in some Goodyear F1 tyres if you want a proven good all round road tyre? For sure, make sure the pressures are correct, and have the geo checked properly. It'll never handle like a FWD car (thank God) so if that's a reference you may have to re assess the definition of good handling V terminal understeer ;)

 

When I had my NA I had toyo proxies all round on the stock 16" wheels and new stock struts and it could go into corners with a bit more speed than I'd dare with the TT.

My experience with both models is that they liven up at higher speeds and give all the feel you need. You can certainly feel the rear tyres biting down into a corner and thats the important part for me.:)

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FYIW, I've done about 400 miles over the bank holiday weekend - some motorway, some back roads, some fast single carriageway A roads, so a complete mix.

 

I have been amazed at the way my car has handled for all the driving done this weekend. Really felt firm on the road, nice and tight steering, dead straight and true, no tramlining etc. reasonably comfortable over bumps and so much grip throwing it round bends.

 

My Supra has yellow Bilsteins (fitted new 10,000 miles ago), Eibach springs (fitted from new, approx 20,000 miles), new top mounts, new rear drop links and stabiliser arms and 17" alloys (in need of refurb), fitted with Goodyear F1s on the front (33psi) and new Falken 452's (34psi) on the rear, all standard sizes. (really impressed with the Falkens, but not tested in the wet yet). I did have Toyo Proxy T1-R's on the back and hated them.

 

I have been thinking about getting some new 18's, but TBH, I'm sticking with my wheels and getting them refurbed, as I know how well the car handles and that they clear UK brakes without spacers etc. As Chris says, Toyota got the suspension, wheel sizes, tyre sizes etc pretty well sorted on the car, almost anything that you do will compromise the handling.

 

After this weekend I am seriously thinking about keeping this car even if it ends up with 200,000 miles as it is so good to drive :)

 

J

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As Chris says, Toyota got the suspension, wheel sizes, tyre sizes etc pretty well sorted on the car, almost anything that you do will compromise the handling.

 

J

 

Can't be true, or how can it be that everyone who has aftermarket suspension (incl me) raves about how much better it is? My car on stock suspension was very soft and floaty at high speeds, now it's firm and grippy (with Tein Super Streets) and has much better steering response. Same with tight cornering. It's made things so much better than before.

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Can't be true, or how can it be that everyone who has aftermarket suspension (incl me) raves about how much better it is? My car on stock suspension was very soft and floaty at high speeds, now it's firm and grippy (with Tein Super Streets) and has much better steering response. Same with tight cornering. It's made things so much better than before.

 

Sorry, what I mean is back in 1993, when the cars were new, not 10-14 years later, when the original suspension will be knackered. I've got Eibachs and think they're great, just saying that on the whole the set up Toyota gave the Supe was a good all-round package to cope with different road surfaces, types of driving etc.

 

TBH I was talking more about wheel sizes and tyre widths than suspension, as per Chris Wilson's post

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The first thing you should do if you have light steering and an import is check the speed converter has been done properly. Often they are installed so the converted signal is fed into the ECU and therefore the feeds to other speed sensitive stuff which is Td off the wiring to the ECU. If so the speed sensitive steering thinks you are going slower than you are and gives too much assistance. The aircon also gets a bit confused and blows the fans too hard.

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