Ulrik Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Maybe you can help me out here.... Iv had my car for 2 years now, when i bought it, it was all Stock. And now its APU, but it feels rather slow.... Last year it was BPU+ with these parts: Blitz SUS Airfilter Kit Greddy BCC Greddy 3" FMIC Greddy 60mm Boost Gauge Greddy 60mm A/F Gauge Greddy 60mm EXT Temp Gauge HKS 4" Ti Exhaust HKS EVC 5 HKS SSQV BOV Kit RMM 3" DP TRD Twin Plate Clutch NGK 3330 Spark Plugs (original gap) Running 19 PSI (1,31 bar) And now this year i have: Greddy T78 Turbo Kit BL 780cc Fuel System HKS F-Con V Pro Gold (Tuned by HKS Pro Dealer) Greddy Type-R Bov (stiff spring) Greddy 3" FMIC Greddy 60mm Boost Gauge Greddy 60mm A/F Gauge Greddy 60mm EXT Temp Gauge HKS 4" Ti Exhaust HKS EVC 5 TRD Twin Plate Clutch NGK 3330 Spark Plugs (original gap) Running 21 PSI (1,4 bar) I didnt DYNO my car when it was BPU+, stupid of me.... I only had as referance when i raced with my friend with his Porsche 911 Turbo -01 (996, 420 hp). We did alot of rolling starts and when i was BPU+. And we were equal fast. But now as referance we did the same again, when my car is APU. So we raced again, rolling starts.... I was only a little faster ,maybe 1 car ahead of him tops... Feel like i have 20-30 hp more then before.... Something must be wrong.... At idle the RPM goes up and down, all the time... And at high speed at high rpm, it feels like it missfires somewhat.. Should i maybe change to some colder plugs, and make the gap smaller then stock ? Still have the same plugs since last year, the NGK 3330. Something wrong with the mapping ? Shoulde be since it was mapped by a HKS Pro Dealer.... I have the yellow 0,8 bar spring in the wastegate...and running 1,4 bar on the Boost Controller. Gonna have the car Dynoed really soon...so we can see how much it makes... Should i boost some more, or get some more parts then add the boost ? Need new Cams ? (HKS 264 intake/exhaust) Engine is still stock on the inside... On these parts i have now, how much hp should i have on the wheels and how much in the engine ? What do you say, any tips on what to do for more hp ? Thanks Alot // André Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 What power did the T78 make at 1.4bar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik Posted March 27, 2007 Author Share Posted March 27, 2007 What power did the T78 make at 1.4bar? Not 100% sure what to think... The one who mapped it, claimed it had 575 hp...not sure if he ment in the engine or on the wheels, but feels alot slower.... Then i asked for dyno pappers, but he couldent print them... So, im going back there in a few days to get it Dynoed for real... See how much it makes...because it should feel alot faster then bpu+ right ? // André Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Possible bad map, for reference Jonty's T78 made 620bhp flywheel@ 1.5bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 When you say it still has the same plugs from last year, do you really mean they are the same exact plugs that you have been using. Or are they the same model but new ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 In addition to what Gamer asked, the erratic idle and misfire on boost might be a sign of a very rich map (this is what mine does on a base map). Do you have an AFR gauge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik Posted March 27, 2007 Author Share Posted March 27, 2007 When you say it still has the same plugs from last year, do you really mean they are the same exact plugs that you have been using. Or are they the same model but new ? Exact the same....should change i guess But the car have not run that much since bpu+ and single... Gonna change them within 2-3 days.... In addition to what Gamer asked, the erratic idle and misfire on boost might be a sign of a very rich map (this is what mine does on a base map). Do you have an AFR gauge? Yes i have Air/Fuel Ratio gauge....from greddy 60mm... But im not sure it works like it should...since i bought it used......and not 100% its connected right...hmms It seems broken, it keeps flying up and down, maybe i should get a real wideband meter ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Exact the same....should change i guess But the car have not run that much since bpu+ and single... Gonna change them within 2-3 days.... No wonder you have problems! Change them ASAP Yes i have Air/Fuel Ratio gauge....from greddy 60mm... But im not sure it works like it should...since i bought it used......and not 100% its connected right...hmms It seems broken, it keeps flying up and down, maybe i should get a real wideband meter ? When driving around normally thats exactly what they do The bit you should pay attention to is when you are under boost and at WOT. Get the car in say 4th or 5th gear, start from 2.5k rpm and take it up to near the rev limit, while watching the AFR Gauge (actually, its probably safer to get a mate to!). when under full boost and throttle it should read 11.5 or less. If its more, take your foot off the throttle immediately. Let us know how you get on (after the plug change!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik Posted March 27, 2007 Author Share Posted March 27, 2007 Thanks for the great input homer Gonna do that asap.....meeting a friend of mine that help me build the supra, he gonna help me with it all.... Do i need a better wideband meter ? Iv heard they are poor, need a digital ? // André Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 I have a feeling things will change for the better with the new plugs Andre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 and if it does run better, get a friend to film while you test your car against your mates porsche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Do i need a better wideband meter ? Iv heard they are poor, need a digital ? Do you know what the range of the gauge is and whether the sensor itself is wideband? A narrowband is next to useless as the 'important' area will be out of range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 From what hes saying about the Greedy one its possibly a narrowband, in which case get yourself an Innovate LM-1 better than AEM as it has a wider range;) but the plugs will help, it also sounds like the mapping was not up to much, or just played it to safe and its really rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik Posted March 27, 2007 Author Share Posted March 27, 2007 So the Innovate LM-1 is better then the AEM, is it also 52 mm ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 The GReddy gauge uses a widband sensor and shows values between 16.0 and 8.0, so should be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik Posted March 28, 2007 Author Share Posted March 28, 2007 The GReddy gauge uses a widband sensor and shows values between 16.0 and 8.0, so should be fine. So it should work fine ? I dont need a AEM or Innovate LM-1 ? Ill try and get the meter on film....since it seems very strange to me.... // André Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I presume the mapping of the T78 done with the old plugs too, which isn't too clever. The Greddy should be okay if reading from 8 to 16. Swap your plugs, go for a drive and watch the afrs on boost\wot as mentioned, then let us know what you are getting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik Posted March 28, 2007 Author Share Posted March 28, 2007 I presume the mapping of the T78 done with the old plugs too, which isn't too clever. The Greddy should be okay if reading from 8 to 16. Swap your plugs, go for a drive and watch the afrs on boost\wot as mentioned, then let us know what you are getting Will do, they are not exactly old, since i didnt have time to drive that much, but iv alredy ordered new plugs and gonna pick them up after work today...and have them changed really soon... Not driving the car till i had them changed.... Ill let u guys know about the AF Ratio later... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I presume the mapping of the T78 done with the old plugs too, which isn't too clever. See this just wouldn't give me any confidence at all in the installer of the parts. Also the mapper should really ask what the upgrades were and what the state of the whole system is before he starts the job. Also and this will maybe get me a bit of stick but I reckon a very well setup stock twin BPU+++ system will feel almost as quick if not quicker than a basic APU system will, especially with an auto car. I don't think you are going to find huge overall performance increases (I don't mean the top power figure here but the whole system performance) with a basic APU setup. Toyota went twin sequential on this road car for a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik Posted March 28, 2007 Author Share Posted March 28, 2007 See this just wouldn't give me any confidence at all in the installer of the parts. Also the mapper should really ask what the upgrades were and what the state of the whole system is before he starts the job. Also and this will maybe get me a bit of stick but I reckon a very well setup stock twin BPU+++ system will feel almost as quick if not quicker than a basic APU system will, especially with an auto car. I don't think you are going to find huge overall performance increases (I don't mean the top power figure here but the whole system performance) with a basic APU setup. Toyota went twin sequential on this road car for a reason. Have you ever driven/ride in a APU supra with 600-700 bhp ? The fun starts here.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 Have you ever driven/ride in a APU supra with 600-700 bhp ? The fun starts here.... No but I owned a BPU+++ supra with an argued 450 ish at the fly and I now own an apu aristo with a fair few more horses than that and I feel the supra was effectively quicker and easier to drive (powerwise) than the aristo is. There are obviously times when the power is stronger in the aristo but across the rev range the response is better from the TT's and what you don't get at the top end you make up for by getting through the lower and mid range quicker. Also lets be fair here 600-700 bhp is not a basic APU setup is it? More like stage 2 or 3 or whatever they call it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik Posted March 30, 2007 Author Share Posted March 30, 2007 Nothing wrong with the battery or the plugs... But my A/F meter seem to be broken....gonna try a new one soon....i guess its just poorly mapped... Gonna take it back in the next week i guess....and ask for dyno papers // André Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Hey Andre, I hope you understood my reply to your PM. Your AFR gauge appears to be okay, I think you need to get it back to your mapper to explain why it's so down on power. I'll be over in 2 weeks so will be happy to take a look at it for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 You off to sweden homer? I have brakes need fitting in Holland if you are passing my way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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